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Feminised seeds


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#1 PowerFlower

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:42 PM

This year im going to pollinate at least one of my plants (for the first time). It would be purely for the experience and i will likely give the seeds away to friends and fellow growers. On the other hand; if it is possible and somewhat practical for me to produce feminised seeds then this could be a bit of a gamechanger for myself and some friends. I am capable of taking lots of clones but i can only do so part of the year as i dont grow during winter. Appreciative of any ideas/tips/experiences as always, thanks. ;)
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#2 IammuA

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:09 PM

I have never had much luck making femmed beans using colloidal silver, one of the most common ways it is done.

 

I AM AWARE of the method using the plants natural lifecycle of senescence for making femmed beans. It basically involves growing the plant for its normal cycle of veg/flowering and then reveg or extended flowering, keeping the plant growing so long and without fertilization  th@ it genetically hits the emergency button and begins to throw off male flowers in a desperate attempt to continue its seedline.

This does involve growing the plant much longer than usual.

 

Soma has used senescence in his breeding and written of his experiences with it.

 

http://www.mrnice.nl...ut-genes-3.html

 

http://www.sidney.my...perpdfs/141.pdf

 

You will need to do some research on the subject to get better info than I can provide.

 

A strong colloidal silver solution can be made quite easily with silver, distilled water and 3 X 9V batteries...there are many vids of it on the 'net.

 

https://www.google.c...ZXoDjAQ_AUIBygC

 

 

A google search using keywords with the plus sign [+] joining them with no spaces will show results containing all the keywords in them

 

Like this [making+colloidal+silver+feminized+cannabis]

 

https://www.google.c...inized+cannabis

 

 

Hope this helps, sing out if ya have any more questions.

 

muA

 

PS: if ya DO make feminized pollen, it can be stored a long time in an airtight container in the fridge or freezer for use when needed.

 

muA


Edited by IammuA, 23 February 2017 - 02:13 PM.

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#3 PowerFlower

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

Thanks! I couldnt have hoped for a better response. I have read a little about colloidal silver, if seeds are produced by any method without using the pollen of a male plant are those seeds then feminised? I will be reading those links now, im eager to know more.


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#4 IammuA

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:42 PM

IF a female plant throws off male flowers the seeds are almost always female/feminized as BOTH the parents [in this case the same plant, a female]  are female and only contribute the XX chromosomes.

There IS one caveat however...and th@ is SOME...a very few from my understanding, females also carry the xy chromosome...this is where it gets deep and murky into the genetics of the plant and I know little more on the subject, I am just aware of it.

 

Be aware, a plant treated with colloidal silver WILL look rather hideous and growth will be....ugly. The colloidal silver can make it throw off male flowers but its growth will make it look ratty and the leaves and flowers will most probably be distorted and mutantish.

 

IF you do go with the colloidal silver method please post pics and your results [even failures]. It will be most helpful to others and can serve as a springboard for future investigations on the subject. It might even get some useful comments or advice! hehehehe

 

muA

 

PS: there ARE products on the market for making femmed seeds, some searching should turn up a few over the counter options....this may be another way to go. I have no experience with these type products so its up to you to find the info, but it IS out there!

 

muA


Edited by IammuA, 23 February 2017 - 02:49 PM.

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#5 IammuA

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 03:06 PM

Thanks! I couldnt have hoped for a better response. I have read a little about colloidal silver, if seeds are produced by any method without using the pollen of a male plant are those seeds then feminised? I will be reading those links now, im eager to know more.

 

Short answer, YES, 99.xx% of the time, seeds produced by any method without using the pollen of a male plant will be female.

 

This being said, the hermie trait of a female plant throwing off male flowers is NOT something growers really want in their personal genepool...this is why hermies are not sought out as a great source of femmed beans.

 

Hermies, to my knowledge, CAN genetically possess the Y[male] chromosome...and methinks this would be why the hermie trait continues...and it does not always show up in every generation, sometimes it is stress or situation induced, sometimes it happens every generation.

 

I am unsure if femming using colloidal silver WILL imbue hermie traits via mutation to the femmed seeds but I believe so [its been a decade or so since I looked into it seriously so my memory is sketchy and advances HAVE been made since then].

 

Because of this IMO I would NOT breed or make seeds from a femmed plant if I could get away with it, just in case it does induce hermie traits....if you make femmed beans, just grow the plants and smoke them, not use them for making more beans.

 

muA


Edited by IammuA, 23 February 2017 - 03:06 PM.

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#6 PowerFlower

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 04:41 PM

To be honest the closest i have ever had to anything hermie on any of my plants were swollen calyxes(i lost my mind with panic still). If successful the seeds will likely be used for outdoor growing next year so a male flower here or there wont do any crippling damage. If i do attempt the colloidal silver method i will try it on a clone and i will certainly post pictures at different stages of growth/flower.


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#7 IammuA

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:55 PM

Sweet!

 

Cloning is pretty simple...it can be as basic as putting a cutting in a glass of water to as complex as a mister system, water heater and contained cloning chamber....start with simple and build from there...if simple doesn't work you can add something to make it more complex :D: hehehe

 

I use foam cups filled with coco coir and clonex rooting gel, a clear plastic tub with lid and a simple cfl lamp sitting upside down on the lid...once the clones have begun to root I skew the lid so they are open to the air and acclimatize to growing before potting them up.

 

Check out the grow faq's in my sig below for info.

 

muA


Edited by IammuA, 23 February 2017 - 06:56 PM.

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#8 420circuit

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:26 PM

What a coincidence, I am nearing a verdict on a colloidal silver fem seed project, so will take some pics of how it's working, or not. Today I saw what looked like small  pods beginning to form, after 4 weeks of twice a day soaking with a solution that I made with a small 24V power supply, a 1K resistor, quart jar, distilled water and a couple silver wires. This is week 3 of flower so expecting pollen sacs right about now. Started 2 clones together, vegged together and started flower at the same time, but one was sprayed while the other was not, my hope is to have a female ready for that pollen. Trying to make seeds of a "clone only" strain. This has been quite a lot of effort, so I am really hoping to see some good seeds. Not in this for business, just want to unplug the cloner as running it has become a chore. Fem seeds are sure convenient, although I get a twinge of guilt every time I germ one because it feels slightly un-natural. The cosmos got me back when the fem Headband seed that I arrogantly planted in a huge pot turned out male.

 

Nice to see interest in this subject, I'll pass along pics of how my project is coming along in hopes of learning how it should be done. Go easy on me, this is my first attempt and I seem to find the wrong ways first.


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#9 IammuA

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:41 PM

cool, 420circuit!....I look forward to seeing ya pics and the results.

 

The plant you have been spraying...is it showing weird and ratty growth?

 

muA


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#10 plant boy

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:24 AM

sometimes with fem seeds the original plant is female and can produce nice buds ,but clones of that plant can turn into males



#11 420circuit

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:34 AM

colloidal silver stuff
balls
ballsy
flower

 

Looks like pollen sacs forming and yes, the spray caused some twisting and deformation of growth, but not too badly. Today the second sprayer has clogged, it seems they clog up with the colloidal silver solution. I am using a 4 ounce spray bottle that gives a fine mist. I'll make another batch of silver solution, a full quart was enough to get it this far, but I think a few more days should be enough.


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#12 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:17 AM

http://www.marijuana...read.php?t=1974

 

https://www.icmag.co...ead.php?t=60610


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#13 IammuA

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:35 AM

some links I have come across... :toking:

 

http://thcbiomed.com...-cannbis-seeds/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2842705/

 

http://link.springer...1007/BF00275107

 

http://www.calgarycm...inizedseeds.htm

 

http://www.catalyticgenerators.com/

 

https://en.wikipedia...ome_Duplication

 

http://scholar.googl...Qu5BtEQgQMIGTAA

 

https://genomevoluti...ome_duplication

 

https://en.wikipedia...Paleopolyploidy

 

muA

 

Addendum;

Reading up on the methods of feminization, both the colloidal silver and the ethylene methods are applied BEFORE the plant begins flowering...expressing it's gender.

 

So...it got me to wondering...the traditional seed soak before planting them....if one were to soak the seeds in a colloidal silver solution, would this help or influence feminization? thinking.gif

The draft genome and transcriptome of Cannabis sativa

A comparison of Purple Kush genome and Finola [industrial fiber hemp] genome.

 

 

muA


Edited by IammuA, 24 February 2017 - 11:07 AM.

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#14 420circuit

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 11:48 AM

The way I understand the colloidal silver method is that application inhibits the presence of the chemical signal that starts the plant's production of female flowers. I forget the name of the chemical, which may be linked to the flowering photoperiod, it's level increases with more darkness, but somehow the silver screws that up, so the plant makes pollen instead. Forgive if this understanding is incorrect, its just the way I interpret it as a stoned student. The seeds would probably suffer in a silver solution, it may be better to wait until it gets roots and is healthy, before weakening it with silver. Maybe it causes "plant bruising" when applied, a sort of microscopic shrapnel to the cells that are growing. I'm cautious with the solution, concerned about doing harm with getting it on me. There are people who actually drink this stuff, which I think is pretty nuts when you consider that it is just a strong metal and related compounds, which I would not think carry any sort of "magic" and would probably tear up cells pretty well, so bad idea. I usually glove up to spray and wash afterwards. The plants in this project will be used only for seeds because the silver is "ingested" by the plant, which likely has some toxicity. I think this is starting to work, so I should probably take a few better pictures to document the process in greater detail. The total cost was less than $20, mostly silver wire, but I did raid the junk box for a power supply, resistor, wire, jar and clips. The plant that I want seeds from is a hippy's worst nightmare, an all CBD plant. I'm also trying to get a SAGE (TH Seeds) to make pollen, that one has been real nice to have around.


2 days ago I changed to a 17 hour day in order to further stress these seed plants. Probably back to 12/12 or 11/13 tomorrow, since the sacs are starting to form.


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#15 PowerFlower

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:49 PM

The way I understand the colloidal silver method is that application inhibits the presence of the chemical signal that starts the plant's production of female flowers. I forget the name of the chemical, which may be linked to the flowering photoperiod, it's level increases with more darkness, but somehow the silver screws that up, so the plant makes pollen instead. Forgive if this understanding is incorrect, its just the way I interpret it as a stoned student. The seeds would probably suffer in a silver solution, it may be better to wait until it gets roots and is healthy, before weakening it with silver. Maybe it causes "plant bruising" when applied, a sort of microscopic shrapnel to the cells that are growing. I'm cautious with the solution, concerned about doing harm with getting it on me. There are people who actually drink this stuff, which I think is pretty nuts when you consider that it is just a strong metal and related compounds, which I would not think carry any sort of "magic" and would probably tear up cells pretty well, so bad idea. I usually glove up to spray and wash afterwards. The plants in this project will be used only for seeds because the silver is "ingested" by the plant, which likely has some toxicity. I think this is starting to work, so I should probably take a few better pictures to document the process in greater detail. The total cost was less than $20, mostly silver wire, but I did raid the junk box for a power supply, resistor, wire, jar and clips. The plant that I want seeds from is a hippy's worst nightmare, an all CBD plant. I'm also trying to get a SAGE (TH Seeds) to make pollen, that one has been real nice to have around.


2 days ago I changed to a 17 hour day in order to further stress these seed plants. Probably back to 12/12 or 11/13 tomorrow, since the sacs are starting to form.

 

 

 

At which stage did you begin the silver application and why? I think the interruption of light cycle should definitely help i bet breaking a branch or some defoliation would stir things up nicely too.

 

 


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#16 PowerFlower

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:56 PM

 

 

Sweet!

 

Cloning is pretty simple...it can be as basic as putting a cutting in a glass of water to as complex as a mister system, water heater and contained cloning chamber....start with simple and build from there...if simple doesn't work you can add something to make it more complex :D: hehehe

 

I use foam cups filled with coco coir and clonex rooting gel, a clear plastic tub with lid and a simple cfl lamp sitting upside down on the lid...once the clones have begun to root I skew the lid so they are open to the air and acclimatize to growing before potting them up.

 

Check out the grow faq's in my sig below for info.

 

muA

Thanks, im pretty confident taking cuttings/clones. I have a large T5 unit and i use rockwool cubes and RootIt gel, seems to do the trick i will try find some pics of some of last years babies. Considering one of those easy cloners purely for convenience but had mixed feedback on them?


Edited by PowerFlower, 24 February 2017 - 12:57 PM.

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#17 420circuit

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:30 PM

Regarding starting the application of colloidal silver, I waited until they were almost a foot high and then flipped to flower after a week of spraying. The pods (if that is what they are, still early, but looking good) didn't show until 3 weeks into flower. I decided to make another small batch of colloidal silver today, so took a better picture. All it is is a jar with a couple silver wires dropped into distilled water with 24VDC applied thru a resistor (and a fuse). I have to clean the silver wires off every half hour or so with the pot scrubber, but in a few hours it will be strong enough. (I guess) I could measure the EC or PPM, but find that the voltage measured across the 2 silver wires is a good indicator of how much silver is in the water. As the PPM increases, the water become more conductive, causing the voltage between the wires to drop. When I forgot it was power up and left it on overnight, the voltage was only 10V and the transformer was pretty hot, so not a good idea. My best guess is that after a few hours and when the voltage drops from 24V to around 18V within a few minutes of cleaning the wires, that should be done

colloidsomesilver

 


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#18 IammuA

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:34 PM

Good info, thanks.

 

muA


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#19 420circuit

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:46 PM

Regarding having a cloner around, yes, I love having that tool available and it was cheap and easy to build from the plans that "StinkBud" made available online. He has a new version, easy to find with a search, but I made the 2012 version with a PVC tubing cutter from Harb**Frei**t and some cheap supplies. It is very reliable and  great way to preserve your special genetics without keeping a mother plant all the time. My problem is that I travel and need to leave it unattended, which only works for a week or so. Also, it is just another thing to clean and maintain, if the water gets warm it will go bad soon and the aroma will let you know. But as far as making new plants the thing is awesome, operates in open net pots with no media, just suspended in air. Takes 2-3 weeks to develop a nice wad of roots, at least that's what I see with zero nutes, just a little Clonex, a couple 2 foot T-5s and the sprayers set for 1 minute on, 4 minutes off.

CP Veg clone closet

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#20 IammuA

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:18 PM

Gotta link for  stinkbugs setup?

 

muA


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#21 420circuit

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:43 AM

http://harvestapound...coner-ii-plans/

 

His thread on RIU had well over a million views, so I thought everyone was already doing it that way. Hysterical

 

His "hook" is that you can harvest a pound every 3 weeks with the whole system. That would be possible with 3 flowering systems going all the time, along with their supporting veg and clone systems I suppose. A single flowering system, set up to grow 12 plants, gets pretty crowded, so there are clearly ways to improve on the system, which is why the RIU thread continued for thousands of posts. I should buy his book since his online plans have been so helpful. Currently, I am just running a few small plants in soil, but use the cloner and a veg unit routinely. I started with soil after participating in a blind taste test, which revealed a better taste and aroma from organics. Still a student of the different styles of farming. thinking.gif


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#22 420circuit

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:39 PM

OK, I'm calling it a male, these are def pollen sacs today. Still spraying. Waiting on pollen, the female is parked alongside. Turned the light back to 11/13.

baalllsoffire

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#23 420circuit

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

OK, there is no pollen yet, but any time now it looks like it will spew forth from the pods. It took 37 days of twice a day spraying with colloidal silver to get to this point, starting a week before flip.

great balls Of fire

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#24 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 09:48 AM

It shouldn't be much longer...



#25 420circuit

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:57 PM

Checked calendar and see that this plant has been flowering for 12 weeks as of tomorrow, it usually goes around 8 weeks, leaving it to go long in the hope of seeing seeds, either from the CS or by natural means. The plant that turned "male" was looking bad and was dropping the pollen pods, so I clipped a few ends off of the branches and shook them over the female plant's buds, then left the plants to grow together for a couple more weeks. The female is now finishing slowly and will be cut after it looks like death. I am also letting a SAGE go long along with a Fire OG in the hope that seeds will show up. Looking forward to growing out some of the seeds from this project to see if they come out alright. They better because I shut down the cloner. drums.gif

 

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