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#1 anothertime

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 08:06 AM

Alfalfa Pellets (3-1-2) avg release 40g/sq ft
Corn Gluten (6-0-0) avg release 15g/sq ft
Compost (1-1-1) slow release 125g/sq ft
Bird guano (10-3-1 variable) fast release 25g/sq ft
Cow manure (2-0-0 variable) avg release 60g/sq ft
Horse manure (5-2.5-6 variable) avg release 20g/sq ft
Soybean meal (6-1.5-2) avg release 20g/sq ft
Worm castings (1-0-0) slow release 150g/sq ft
Kelp (1-0.2-2) fast release 15g/sq ft
Insect manure (4-3-2) fast release 35g/sq ft
Fish emulsion (5-2-2 liquid) fast release 1ml/sq ft
Cottonseed meal (6-2-2) avg release 20g/sq ft
Bone meal (2-11-0) slow release 25g/sq ft
Blood meal (12-0-0) fast release 10g/sq ft
 
Alfalfa Hay: 2.45/05/2.1 
Apple Fruit: 0.05/0.02/0.1 
Apple Leaves: 1.0/0.15/0.4 
Apple Pomace: 0.2/0.02/0.15 
Apple skins(ash) : 0/3.0/11/74 
Banana Residues (ash): 1.75/0.75/0.5 
Barley (grain): 0/0/0.5 
Barley (straw): 0/0/1.0 
Basalt Rock: 0/0/1.5 
Bat Guano: 5.0-8.0/4.0-5.0/1.0 
Beans, garden(seed and hull): 0.25/0.08/03 
Beet Wastes: 0.4/0.4/0.7-4.1 
Blood meal: 15.0/0/0 
Bone Black: 1.5/0/0 
Bonemeal (raw): 3.3-4.1/21.0/0.2 
Bonemeal (steamed): 1.6-2.5/21.0/0.2 
 
Brewery Wastes (wet): 1.0/0.5/0.05 
Buckwheat straw: 0/0/2.0 
Cantaloupe Rinds (ash): 0/9.77/12.0 
Castor pomace: 4.0-6.6/1.0-2.0/1.0-2.0 
Cattail reeds and water lily stems: 2.0/0.8/3.4 
Cattail Seed: 0.98/0.25/0.1 
Cattle Manure (fresh): 0.29/0.25/0.1 
Cherry Leaves: 0.6/0/0.7 
Chicken Manure (fresh): 1.6/1.0-1.5/0.6-1.0 
Clover: 2/0/0/0 (also contains calcium) 
Cocoa Shell Dust: 1.0/1.5/1.7 
Coffee Grounds: 2.0/0.36/0.67 
Corn (grain): 1.65/0.65/0.4 
Corn (green forage): 0.4/0.13/0.33 
Corn cobs: 0/0/2.0 
Corn Silage: 0.42/0/0 
Cornstalks: 0.75/0/0.8 
Cottonseed hulls (ash): 0/8.7/23.9 
Cottonseed Meal: 7.0/2.0-3.0/1.8 
Cotton Wastes (factory): 1.32/0.45/0.36 
Cowpea Hay: 3.0/0/2.3 
Cowpeas (green forage): 0.45/0.12/0.45 
Cowpeas (seed): 3.1/1.0/1.2 
Crabgrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71 
Crabs (dried, ground): 10.0/0/0 
Crabs (fresh): 5.0/3.6/0.2 
Cucumber Skins (ash): 0/11.28/27.2 
Dried Blood: 10.0-14.0/1.0-5.0/0 
Duck Manure (fresh): 1.12/1.44/0.6 
Eggs: 2.25/0.4/0.15 
Eggshells: 1.19/0.38/0.14 
Feathers: 15.3/0/0 
Felt Wastes: 14.0/0/1.0 
Field Beans (seed): 4.0/1.2/1.3 
Feild Beans (shells): 1.7/0.3/1.3 
Fish (dried, ground): 8.0/7.0/0 
Fish Scraps (fresh): 6.5/3.75/0 
Gluten Meal: 6.4/0/0 
Granite Dust: 0/0/3.0-5.5 
Grapefruit Skins (ash): 0/3.6/30.6  
Grape Leaves: 0.45/0.1/0.4 
Grape Pomace: 1.0/0.07/0.3 
Grass (imature): 1.0/0/1.2 
Greensand: 0/1.5/7.0 
Hair: 14/0/0/0 
Hoof and Horn Meal: 12.5/2.0/0 
Horse Manure (fresh): 0.44/0.35/0.3 
Incinerator Ash: 0.24/5.15/2.33  
Kentucky Bluegrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71 
Kentucky Bluegrass (hay): 1.2/0.4/2.0 
Leather Dust: 11.0/0/0 
Lemon Culls: 0.15/0.06/0.26 
Lemon Skins (ash): 06.33/1.0 
Lobster Refuse: 4.5/3.5/0 
Milk: 0.5/0.3/0.18 
Millet Hay: 1.2/0/3.2 
Molasses Residue 
(From alcohol manufacture): 0.7/0/5.32 
Molasses Waste 
(From Sugar refining): 0/0/3.0-4.0 
Mud (fresh water): 1.37/0.26/0.22 
Mud (harbour): 0.99/0.77/0.05 
Mud (salt): 0.4.0/0 
Mussels: 1.0/0.12/0.13 
Nutshells: 2.5/0/0 
Oak Leaves: 0.8/0.35/0.2 
Oats (grain): 2.0/0.8/0.6 
Oats (green fodder): 0.49/0/0 
Oat straw: 0/0/1.5 
Olive Pomace: 1.15/0.78/1.3 
Orange Culls: 0.2/0.13/0.21 
Orange Skins: 0/3.0/27.0 
Oyster Shells: 0.36/0/0 
Peach Leaves: 0.9/0.15/0.6 
Pea forage: 1.5-2.5/0/1.4 
Peanuts (seed/kernals): 3.6/0.7/0.45 
Peanut Shells: 3.6/0.15/0.5 
Pea Pods (ash): 0/3.0/9.0 
Pea (vines): 0.25/0/0.7 
Pear Leaves: 0.7/0/0.4 
Pigeon manure (fresh): 4.19/2.24/1.0 
Pigweed (rough): 0.6/0.1/0 
Pine Needles: 0.5/0.12/0.03 
Potato Skins (ash): 0/5.18/27.5 
Potaote Tubers: 0.35/0.15/2.5 
Potatoe Vines (dried): 0.6/0.16/1.6 
Prune Refuse: 0.18/0.07/0.31 
Pumpkins (fresh): 0.16/0.07/0.26 
Rabbitbrush (ash): 0/0/13.04 
Rabbit Manure: 2.4/1.4/0.6 
Ragweed: 0.76/0.26/0 
Rapeseed meal: 0/1.0=2.0/1.0=3.0 
Raspberry leaves: 1.45/0/0.6 
Red clover hay: 2.1/0.6/2.1 
Redrop Hay: 1.2/0.35/1.0 
Rock and Mussel Deposits 
From Ocean: 0.22/0.09/1.78 
Roses (flowers): 0.3/0.1/0.4 
Rye Straw: 0/0/1.0 
Salt March Hay: 1.1/0.25/0.75 
Sardine Scrap: 8.0/7.1/0 
Seaweed (dried): 1.1-1.5/0.75/4.9 (Seaweed is loaded with micronutrients including: Boron, Iodine, Magnesium and so on.) 
Seaweed (fresh): 0.2-0.4/0/0 
Sheep and Goat Manure (fresh): 0.55/0.6/0.3 
Shoddy and Felt: 8.0/0/0 
Shrimp Heads (dried): 7.8/4.2/0 
Shrimp Wastes: 2.9/10.0/0 
Siftings From Oyster Shell Mounds: 0.36/10.38/0.09 
Silk Mill Wastes: 8.0/1.14/1.0 
Silkworm Cocoons:10.0/1.82/1.08 
Sludge: 2.0/1.9/0.3 
Sludge (activated): 5.0/2.5-4.0/0.6 
Smokehouse/Firepit Ash:0/0/4.96 
Sorghum Straw:0/0/1.0 
Soybean Hay: 1.5-3.0/0/1.2-2.3 
Starfish: 1.8/0.2/0.25
String Beans (strings and stems, ash): 0/4.99/18.0
Sugar Wastes (raw): 2.0/8.0/0 
Sweet Potatoes: 0.25/0.1/0.5 
Swine Manure (fresh): 0.6/0.45/0.5 
Tanbark Ash: 0/0.34/3.8 
Tanbark Ash (spent): 0/1.75/2.0 
Tankage: 3.0-11.0/2.0-5.0/0 
Tea Grounds: 4.15/0.62/0.4 
Timothy Hay: 1.2/0.55/1.4 
Tobacco Leaves: 4.0/0.5/6.0 
Tobacco Stems: 2.5-3.7/0.6-0.9/4.5-7.0 
Tomatoe Fruit: 0.2/0.07/0.35..Hot compost kill seed.
Tomatoe Leaves: 0.35/0.1/0.4 
Tomatoe Stalks: 0.35/0.1/0.5 
Tung Oil Pumace: 6.1/0/0 
Vetch Hay: 2.8/0/2.3 
Waste Silt: 9.5/0/0 
Wheat Bran: 2.4/2.9/1.6 
Wheat (grain): 2.0/0.85/0.5 
Wheat Straw: 0.5/0.15/0.8 
White Clover (Green): 0.5/0.2/0.3 
Winter Rye Hay: 0/0/1.0 
Wood Ash: 0/1.0-2.0/6.0-10.0 (A note on Wood ash: Wood Ash can contain chemicals that could harm plants and also carcinogens so, they should be composted in moderation) 

 


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#2 CrazyDave

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 12:27 PM

good list man! Love me some organic soil!


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#3 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 01:29 PM

Yep, a lot of choices. It comes down whether your working with live soil, or indoor, where your making custom soil for pots. There are a lot of recipes, and don't overlook the gardening websites. Think flower growing, since that's basically what we're doing... :meatballs: :jardinn:


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#4 anothertime

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 08:47 AM

i totally agree kd,what i found interesting its telling you how quick they release in a mix and approximate nutrient values as well!!hope it helps some with problems profiling for a soil mix.the important thing ive found working in organics is use multiple sources to arrive at your nutrient profile.this allows slow and quicker releases of nutrients!! hope it helps some new gardeners dial in there soil mix!!!


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#5 anothertime

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 01:10 PM

A NATURAL GROW 

being i started this thread and put a list of n-p-k values and release info here ill continue!!

 

first of all let me explain that if you are a faithful organic gardener id recommend moving on to the next post as im about to give you my opinions on organic, vegan and 
 
no till gardening.first of all the reason i titled this post as a natural gardening grow rather than organic or any other form of expressing this grow is that anyone that 
 
claims to be gardening organiclly isnt.my reason for this statement is that anything organic has at least one molocule of carbon in is makeup.water which most use id say 
 
99.9% isnt by the scientific definition growing organically as water(h20) contains no carbon molecules.
 
vegan organics
please can anyone explain to me how you can use any form of peat,humus,or soil that one can be assured that a animal since the earths creation has not met its end and 
 
decayed in the amendments you use for vegan gardening and being no one alive today can in good faith guarantee this id say vegan farming is out!!!
 
no till container gardening
here is a good one for the books ive heard it explained as all i do is remove the last plant stalks and roots from the soil and replant in the same container is this not 
 
recycled soil?the definition of no till is to never at any cost disturb or open the surface soil.i do believe this form of growing was correctly described years ago as 
 
being called recycled soil.so again onto the garbage pile goes no till container gardening in most cases!!!
 
How to grow natural plants in containers
ive tried several soil mix recipes some of my own and some from the net and find that you basically cant go wrong with L.C.'s soiless mix as a base for your natural plant 
 
amendments.
 
here it is:
6 parts hp pro or any sunshine soiless mix from 1-4
2 parts perilite
2 parts earthworm casting
to this add 1cup of powdered dolomite lime per cubic foot
 
NOTE.........if a 3 quart saucepans used to measure parts this mix equals approximately 1 cubic foot of mix
 
use this basic mix for seed starting and seedlings up to 3 sets of true leaves(remove enough of this mix to use for the said purpose before adding ammendments)
 
NOW THE FUN PART(what amendments to add)
 
 
 
 
what i want is a couple sources in my mix of each nitrogen,phosphorus and potassium.a slower release and a quicker release choice is best.
example:my mix per cubic foot(7.5 gallons is approximately 1 cubic foot of soil) of L.C.s soiless mix and what my present grow is
 
1 cup of peruvian seabird guano and 1.5 cups of blood meal
1 cup of indonesian bat guano and 2 cups of bone meal 
1/2 cup of kelp meal
 
there are times through a grow that a deficiency is discovered this can easily be corrected by apply the proper tea for the stage your plant is at.the advantages of natural 
 
growing are:(1)no more ppm pen or ph pen needed (2)a much more softer easier to digest product in fact naturally grown plants smoked seem to be somewhere between 
 
vapourizing and salt based nutrient grows.
 
i will be posting pictures of this grow here at a later date!!

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#6 anothertime

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 01:20 PM

i must add here that after your amendments have been added to L.C.'s soiless mix allow a minimum of 10 days before its used. it needs a bit of time to mature.and be dang sure that the amendments are mixed equally throughout the soil mix!!


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#7 Deepwaterdude

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:57 AM

Thanks, anothertime, I've been looking for a soil recipe easy enough for me to follow so I can get away from liquid nutes, pHing and just water like the sky does. Very helpful.


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#8 anothertime

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:45 AM

thanks for the flowers deepwaterdude!well here's a few pics taken hurriedly with a cell. this is my first pics ever with a cell whoohoo!!! these are about and i say about cause im not really a date man i go by what i see both for light switch and when to harvest,im  thinking around the 5- 5.5 week mark from floating the seeds for 36 hours.they were then seeded into the soiless mix bout a 1/4 inch deep.all are in veg, 4 were transplanted sooner than the others and these plants are jm420's cj x sb the only plant that isnt is the one in pic 1 in the center.(clone outta salt base nutes into this soil mix)

 

a pic from the door of my room of all the plants

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carrots from the side i guess haha

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and a plant from overhead and yes i know i should invest in new slippers hahah

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well thats it for now but ill keep you posted!!!

 


ohhhhhhhhhh by the way deepwaterdude with this natural mix phing is no longer needed just add water!!!!!!


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#9 anothertime

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 02:42 PM

yesterday the front two plants and the center plant from the group pic were returned to the veg room and the other four cjxsb were turned to 12-12 lighting.im figuring if they double in size in stretch they will be 2.5-3.5 ft tall after stretch good enough to sex and clone from once im sure which are m-f.


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#10 Deepwaterdude

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 09:35 AM

thanks for the flowers deepwaterdude!well here's a few pics taken hurriedly with a cell. this is my first pics ever with a cell whoohoo!!! these are about and i say about cause im not really a date man i go by what i see both for light switch and when to harvest,im  thinking around the 5- 5.5 week mark from floating the seeds for 36 hours.they were then seeded into the soiless mix bout a 1/4 inch deep.all are in veg, 4 were transplanted sooner than the others and these plants are jm420's cj x sb the only plant that isnt is the one in pic 1 in the center.(clone outta salt base nutes into this soil mix)
 
a pic from the door of my room of all the plants
attachicon.gif21.jpg
 
carrots from the side i guess haha
attachicon.gif23.jpg
 
and a plant from overhead and yes i know i should invest in new slippers hahah
attachicon.gif1.jpg
 
well thats it for now but ill keep you posted!!!
 
ohhhhhhhhhh by the way deepwaterdude with this natural mix phing is no longer needed just add water!!!!!!

.

SOLD!
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#11 anothertime

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 12:54 PM

a small update:

the four cj x sb that initially went into  flower,there are 2 left two were male,two plants were transplanted into the same soil the males were removed from and put to flower.(roots removed and pailed)these original 4 plants were put under 12-12 lighting(still running the m.h. bulb) on july 23rd.

 

here are the two original plants 12-12 on july 23.these two plants were cloned today!!

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yesterday these two plants were put to flower in place of the two removed males.1 is a bit of a dwarf but it should stretch enough to sex and clone.

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here are two cj x 4sd starting out there life cycle again in this soil mix

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again id like to thank the gentleman that sent these genetics to me and the breeder who made this grow possible!!! my hats off thxs !!!

 


so far just water(tap water bubbled 24 hours minimum) when the pail is a bit light and never to run off.


Edited by anothertime, 30 July 2016 - 12:56 PM.

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#12 anothertime

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 01:39 PM

something to ponder for natural gardeners

 

Soil Biology and pH by Jeff Lowenfels

The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.

Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.

In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.

A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.

If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.

When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.

This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.

So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.

Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.

I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.

So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.


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#13 anothertime

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:08 AM

here is L.C'S soil mix and burn ones update and info on this soil mix!!!

 

https://forum.grassc...ano-mix.961301/

 

 

https://www.icmag.co...ead.php?t=53792

 

as read in the above post true organics does not use garden lime(dolomite lime)so again we are back to natural growing.what i hope to do in this post over 3 separate grows is give a little info and insight to 3-4 soil mixes all labeled as organic and try through gathered information as to what is and isn't!! myself while using any of these soil mixes respectfully call them natural grows as im sure the first on pilgrims rock didnt sit under a tree on a sunny day and say gosh we are growing organically.next up after this grow we will experiment with a soil mix done and originally posted as ClackamasCootz soil mix.(i happen to have a mix of it here presently that was used and top dressed and stored for over a year now).thirdly i will run 3 pails of subs super soil and 3 pails of the revs soil mix these last two use teas as well throught the grow.as we advance to these next grows i will try to supply the necessary information needed to mix these soils!!! enjoy life always smile and keep it green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


Edited by anothertime, 05 August 2016 - 11:22 AM.

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#14 anothertime

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:33 AM

(QUOTE)The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.

 

this is the statement made by jeff lowenfelds this man wrote the gospel according to "organic" farmers (Teaming With Microbes)and if my eyes don't deceive me he calls agricultural lime a chemical,go figure!!!!


Edited by anothertime, 05 August 2016 - 11:36 AM.

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#15 Deepwaterdude

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 09:12 PM

here is L.C'S soil mix and burn ones update and info on this soil mix!!!

 

https://forum.grassc...ano-mix.961301/

 

 

https://www.icmag.co...ead.php?t=53792

 

as read in the above post true organics does not use garden lime(dolomite lime)so again we are back to natural growing.what i hope to do in this post over 3 separate grows is give a little info and insight to 3-4 soil mixes all labeled as organic and try through gathered information as to what is and isn't!! myself while using any of these soil mixes respectfully call them natural grows as im sure the first on pilgrims rock didnt sit under a tree on a sunny day and say gosh we are growing organically.next up after this grow we will experiment with a soil mix done and originally posted as ClackamasCootz soil mix.(i happen to have a mix of it here presently that was used and top dressed and stored for over a year now).thirdly i will run 3 pails of subs super soil and 3 pails of the revs soil mix these last two use teas as well throught the grow.as we advance to these next grows i will try to supply the necessary information needed to mix these soils!!! enjoy life always smile and keep it green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

 

 

Awesome info, anothertime, gracias!


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#16 anothertime

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:55 PM

thxs for dropping in and commenting DWD and KD.here is a small update:

still only bubbled tap water

 

here is plant 1(cj x sb) of the 3 females remaining out of 6 seeds after sexing it has been on 12-12 since july 20(19 days)

 

Attached File  plant1.jpg   86.1KB   0 downloads

 

plant1 from the top

 

Attached File  plant1 top.jpg   71.06KB   0 downloads

 

plant 2 (in flower 19 days)

 

Attached File  plant2.jpg   106.86KB   0 downloads

 

plant 2 from the top

 

Attached File  plant2 top.jpg   110.47KB   0 downloads

 

and here is the dwarf (also cj x sb) it is definitely female showed today,this plant was just one of them that grew slower from day one,but ill stretch her a bit and clone her incase its the holy grail of the grow she will finish if all goes well and im hoping for a sample of her as well.this small plant was put to flower on july 23(16 days)

 

Attached File  dwarf.jpg   77.21KB   0 downloads

 

also in flower is a twisted bonded northernlights#5 x god bud.put to flower august5(3 days)

 

Attached File  northernlights#5 x god bud.jpg   111.03KB   0 downloads

 

 

my room is holding with lights on at 79-82 degrees,there is 1- 1000 hps using a cool tube 6 inch exhaust on a rail in a 10x8 room.colour and look of these plants are doing real well!!!


Edited by anothertime, 08 August 2016 - 02:07 PM.

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#17 anothertime

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:16 PM

THE DEFINITION OF ORGANIC

 

organic
 
[awr-gan-ik] 
Spell Syllables
adjective
1.
noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerlycomprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, butthat now includes all other compounds of carbon.
2.
characteristic of, pertaining to, or derived from living organisms :
organic remains found in rocks.
3.
of or relating to an organ or the organs of an animal, plant, or fungus.
4.
of, relating to, or affecting living tissue:
organic pathology.
5.
Psychology. caused by neurochemical, neuroendocrinologic, structural,or other physical impairment or change: organic disorder.
Compare functional (def 5).
6.
Philosophy. having an organization similar in its complexity to that ofliving things.
7.
characterized by the systematic arrangement of parts; organized;systematic:
elements fitting together into a unified, organic whole.
 
thus my statement about water not being organic!!!!!

Edited by anothertime, 08 August 2016 - 03:17 PM.

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#18 anothertime

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:02 AM

WHAT IS PEAT MOSS 

it seems most mj cultivators on the natural side of growing include peat in there mix here is what it is.......

“Do you know what sphagnum peat moss is? Do you know what it’s used for?”

I asked several gardeners these questions after a lecture I gave in Connecticut a while back. Here are the results of my informal poll.  Fifteen out of 20 people did not know what peat moss was, including the manager of a garden center. (He thought it was the same as homemade compost.) Perhaps more surprisingly, seven out of the 20 people did not know what peat moss is supposed to be used for (although they all bought it). One person said her husband spread it on their lawn. Most of the gardeners suggested that peat moss was a mulch to put on top of the soil.

Peat moss is the partially decomposed remains of formerly living sphagnum moss from bogs.  Because it’s nearly impossible to rewet once it’s dried, it repels water and makes a terrible surface mulch.  As a soil amendment, which is what the baled product is mostly sold for, peat moss is also a poor choice.  It breaks down too fast, compressing and squeezing air out of the soil, creating an unhealthy condition for plant roots. Peat moss can be a useful growing medium for containers, however, when lightened with a drainage material like perlite.

The biggest problem with peat moss is that it’s environmentally bankrupt.

Peat moss is mined, which involves scraping off the top layer of living sphagnum moss. The sphagnum peat bog above the mined product is a habitat for plants like sundews, butterwort and bog rosemary, as well as rare and endangered animals like dragonflies, frogs and birds, not to mention the living moss itself.  Despite manufacturers’ claims that the bogs are easy to restore, the delicate community that inhabits the bog cannot be quickly re-established.  Yes, peat moss is a renewable resource, but it can take hundreds to thousands of years to form.

Like all precious wetlands, peat bogs purify fresh air and even mitigate flood damage. 

And there are archeological reasons to preserve peat bogs.  In the acidic moss below the living layer, wooden artifacts of people who lived long ago survive, even the remains of the people themselves.  CO2 is also preserved – trapped in the moss, but released into the air when mined. In fact, peat bogs store about 10% of all fixed carbon.

In the U.S., peat moss is almost exclusively used by the horticulture industry. 40,000 acres of sphagnum are currently being harvested in Canada, with 90% of the product destined for gardens in the U.S. In the U.K., where peat moss is burned as fuel, as well, nearly 94% of the lowland bogs have been altered or completely destroyed due to harvesting.  And most of our peat is shipped hundreds of miles, often when it’s wet and heavy, which adds further to the fuel required for shipping.

Many conservationists, gardeners, and wetlands scientists in these countries have recommended a boycott of peat. The Royal Horticultural Society hopes for a 90% reduction by 2010.  Areas in Ireland have already banned the harvesting of peat moss altogether.

Producers in both Canada and the United States maintain that they never cut sphagnum faster than it grows, and leave behind enough peat to ensure regeneration. The Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss Association claims that peat-moss operations keep the bogs from being drained for development, that five to ten years after harvesting, the bog will be a “functioning wetland” again, and that after 25 years, 90 percent of the original flora will grow back.  I have my doubts. Some wetlands scientists point out that a managed bog lacks the biodiversity of the original bog.

In a development at the center of the gardening world, Monrovia Growers has just introduced a new line of bagged “soil” which contains peat moss.  That’s according to their press release about the products; the word “peat” never appears on their website.

Though gardeners seem to have been programmed to buy peat and are as loyal to the product as some car-buyers used to be about their beloved Pontiacs, there’s simply no need to use it. Chopped leaves make a much better and more attractive mulch, and compost is superior as a soil amendment.

If only more Americans could be encouraged to compost.  If only corporations started  their own composting facilities, and if only more municipalities got serious about composting.

In addition to homemade compost, I use coir, a byproduct of the coconut processing industry.  (Here’s one reliable source.) This formerly discarded material can be shipped completely dehydrated – very lightweight – which reduces its energy requirements for transporting.


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#19 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:53 PM

Good stuff AT. Nowadays I recommend Coco peat since it is more renewable, and doesn't have the problems like hydrophobia. It's mainly a filler....


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#20 anothertime

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:27 PM

thxs kd just want to enlighten some folks and supply info on natural growing,so all im doing is slowly sharing the information ive gathered to naturally grow.keep smiling and keep it green!!!!!!


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#21 anothertime

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:26 AM

ANYONE EVER TRY THIS TECHNIQUE

 

Defoliation Increases Marijuana Yields
 

by Keef Treez "The Defoliator"

Defoliation is an extreme marijuana growth control technique. It's not to be done lightly by beginners.
 

(For those interested, here's a cannabis defoliation tutorial by a different grower)
 

The topic of cannabi defoliation is one of the most controversial subjects in the marijuana growing field. People on both sides defend their position vehemently. 

I'm on the side that believe there is absolutely nothing stressful about defoliation or bending branches. Honestly, there is no way to achieve nearly a pound of buds from a 2-3 foot tall plant indoors, except using defoliation.

Opponents often have arguments like, "PLANTS NEED THOSE LEAVES! If they didn't, they wouldn't be there."

Or my all-time favorite, "I have a friend who used to grow, and he insists that will hurt the plant."

Yet the saddest part of all is how so few people are willing to look at the evidence.

In some ways, I almost would prefer the rest of the growing world keep up their ill-advised lollipopping, removing growing tips, and other low-yield techniques. The defoliation technique has been loudly condemned by "experienced" growers for decades. Nevertheless, I am determined to educate other growers about defoliating and let them see the results for themselves. 

So let me start by giving you some picture proof that defoliation works (make sure you scroll down to see all of them!).

You see, I've been defoliating intensively for 30 years. I am now training plants to be 32" tall and 32" round and yielding 250-400 grams under 400 watt lamp.

Nebula Haze from GrowWeedEasy.com: Yes, that's right, he said 8-14 OUNCES of
buds of marijuana harvested off each short, easy-to-manage 32" tall plant, using
just a regular 400 watt HID grow light.

Here are two of my beauties (the one on the right needs a good plucking)

effects-of-defoliation-sm.jpg

 

How-To Tutorial: The Controversial Technique of Defoliation

Despite all the evidence (I've posted hundreds of pictures and shown dozens of growers in person), there is still somehow so much skepticism about defoliation techniques. Growers, especially new growers, often just say variations of, "It's common sense, how could removing any part of the plant cause you to get higher yields?"

I recently attended an advanced seminar with a prominent fellow grower and got roundly booed when attempting to describe the defoliation technique, even with pictures showing dramatic benefits.

Unlike many other growers, I believe what's most important is studying how the plant actually grows, instead of assuming she grows how we think she should grow. Real experimentation and unbiased observers are the only way growers are going to learn how to get the best yields for the amount of time, money, and effort. 

And it's true that some types of defoliation are brutal to the plants (such as when misguided growers removing all the leaves off extremely young marijuana plants), but other types of defoliation are actually hugely beneficial to increasing yields (I'll be showing you exactly what do do shortly). 

And defoliation is beneficial for more than just marijuana, it also has been proven to increase yields for certain other types of crops. For example, it's well-known that cowpeas experience significant increases in yields when up to 50% of their leaves are defoliated during their flowering stage... (source)

This marijuana girl is 32" tall (the dimensions of this girl are 32"x32"x32" to be exact). She was intensely defoliated throughout her life.
intensive-defoliation-sm.jpg

And it's true that the real beauty of defoliation is difficult to translate in pictures and verbally.  

But I will do my best to give you everything you need to start producing your own huge yields with marijuana defoliation.

But First, Let Me Show You About Increased Bud Production With Defoliation During the Flowering Stage

Before plucking

flowergirl1-before-sm.jpg

 

Immediately After Plucking

flowergirl1-after-sm.jpg

 

Just 4 days later, look at the incredible bud growth

flowergirl1-after-4-days-later-sm.jpg

    

Only 4 Days After That (after another defoliation session)

flowergirl1-after-8-days-later-sm.jpg

Are you beginning to see the power of defoliation?

How Early Do You Start Defoliating?

I first started defoliating in desperation after many years of SOG, which I feel has proven to be too much work for inconsistent yields. After much experimentation, I've found my yields have been more consistent when training a single plant to use this space instead of 4 or 9 or 25 SOG clones. 

Never mind the fact that in many states, patients are limited to just a handful of plants, removing SoG as a viable option.

Most growers who are curious about this do not want to perform defoliation on small plants. They consider the practice in veg to be too radical. And I 100% agree that totally stripping your seedlings of all leaves will be devastating to their growth.

And the honest truth is that defoliation isn't for everyone. Beginners are often already dealing with the drawbacks to their choice of method or media, and defoliation can be disastrous to any but the healthiest of plants. 

Because of this, I sometimes hesitate to throw defoliation into the mix of challenges for beginning growers and I strongly advise any growers to experiment with defoliation (or with any extreme growth control method) in the vegetative stage only where there is nothing at stake

That being said, I believe the only reason you should allow a marijuana plant to leaf out completely is in an outdoor situation where you want as large a plant as possible. In that case you can save deleafing for mid to late summer after full-stretch and branching.

The way I practice this method (growing indoors) leaves never get a chance to age. No leaves are allowed more than about two weeks existence. I start at the top in order to remove the shading. Removing lower leaf contributes nothing to the strategy of exposing usually shaded out mid and lower growth to premium light. I still remove older shabby leaves to keep it all tidy.

And this is where defoliation gets controversial. Many growers feel that controlling their plant in any way during the vegetative stage will significantly reduce yields. And I understand how it can seem that way, especially to new growers, before you've gone through the entire life cycle of the marijuana plant a few times.

Experiments show, again and again, that large plants with intensively prepared structure during extended Veg cycle yield far more than untrained, smaller, force-flowered inpiduals.

Nebula Haze from GrowWeedEasy.comI've also found this to be the case.
Small marijuana plants that are forced to flower when extremely young are
can be fun as an experiment, but produce pitiful yields. Investing more time
in the vegetative stage to gain girth, while controlling the shape and growth
of the plant, has dramatically increased yields for me.

The truth is, that with marijuana, the real 'secret sauce' to getting enormous yields is when you've perfectly prepared your plants for the flowering stage. As any grower knows, once you're deep into flowering, there isn't a whole lot you can do about huge, out-of-control plants except hold on, pray for the best, and do better next time.

I DO NOT lollipop and advice strongly against it. I use defoliation to skillfully and artfully prepare plants during the vegetative stage, so that lollipopping becomes completely unnecessary. I am on a mission to refocus growing technique to never remove ANY productive growth. I believe only leaves should be removed.

Ultimately, the defoliation technique is a huge tool in the grower's toolbox that allows you to dominate the Vegetative stage. Then it can be used in the Flowering stage to maximize yields.

Defoliation is the Big Secret to High-Yield, Compact Marijuana Plants 

My style involves intensive defoliation along with the twist and train method (a version of supercropping) using a basic net for support. 

I only top once, if at all, at the 5th or 6th node(approximately) depending on the height and structure of a given clone. I also deleaf them at this time. The only plants that get more topping than that are because they had clones taken from them. I don't usually keep dedicated mothers, instead, I just clone the clones and cycle everything through.

Here is a close-up of a veg clone getting it's second stripping.

Before

young-before-sm.jpg

After

young-after-sm.jpg

To get the best results, you should start defoliation in the vegetative stage. Leaf removal in bud is beneficial after stretch but most important to yields is management and the creation of a more compact plant with more budding sites in a given size. 

Stripping and bending takes practice but you must do it to get practice. By starting in veg you risk no bud. Veg plants are replaceable so experiment and be ready to devote a little more time to prepare them.

I'd describe my stripping as "aggressive." Once your plant is trained to deal with defoliation, it's hard to go wrong. Plus, after years of experience, I've become very familiar with how these plants grow and always know what my outcome will be.

But defoliation doesn't end in the vegetative stage. I also continue to pull the fan leaves off of my flowering plants to expose the buds.

As far as when and how often, I don't get too scientific about it. 

Usually if things look leafy, meaning that you see more leaf than budsites when viewing the crop, it may be time for another deleafing. It usually takes a week to 10 days for a plant to releaf to the point that there are 2-4 new leaves that have flattened and greened enough to deleaf again. 

This repeated releafing process allows that lower growth to benefit from the maturing of the immediate leaf mass. 

Leaf removal stimulates lower and mid bud growth by exposing those normally shaded out areas to premium light. Of course those new to the technique should start slow, but if you start too slow you won't remove enough leaf to see the best result. 

You basically want to prevent any 'shade' from happening.

Here's an example of how I deleaf a girl who is 2 weeks into 12-12 (flowering)

Before
 2-weeks-into-12-12-flowering-before-sm.j

After
2-weeks-into-12-12-flowering-after-sm.jp

Notice how, you can now see light all the way through the plant. This is a good thing for light, as opposed to seeing nothing but leaves in the before pic.

Wait, did you say you wanted to see what kind of buds I get at the BOTTOM of the plant?

You get extensive bottom growth on defoliated plants

bottom-growth-sm.jpg

This is on the morning of harvest. While some are obsessed with top growth I like well developed bottoms. Tops are a given. If bottoms are this well developed the tops are certainly getting their share of light. Some guys like tops, some like bottoms. I like my girls to be equally well developed.

Ready to Get Started?

You can start easy and try to save leaves but what happens when you see the results like all the mid growth exploding with the new exposure. It would serve logic that if you remove a little and there is good results than remove more and on and on until you get comfortable with stripping down these girls.

I recommend you start deleafing as soon as your plants start looking 'bushy' at all. Start with removing the fans from all the branches and watch the results. Then remove progressively more. Don't remove any branches or sites if you want to commit to this method. 

The idea is shade removal, NOT budsite removal. Allow them to releaf for a week or so and remove again when they look leafy. 

This girl is 32"sq. and under 30" tall. She was thoroughly plucked continuously through her 11 week flowering cycle as well as during veg. No shortage of branches or buds, all of them chunky and exposed. I ended up harvesting 12 ounces off her. Marijuana plants do not get like this on their own. Stripping in veg and throughout bud is the only way to get results like this. 
 

defoliation-demonstration-sm.jpg

 

Answer to the 3 Most Common Questions About Marijuana Defoliation

1.) Which Fan Leaves Can Be Plucked?

defoliate-dont-remove-these-sm.jpgAll of them.

That was the short answer. 

I remove everything that is easily pinched off with the thumbnail and forefinger. I keep a little bit of a cutting tool for a thumbnail specifically for that purpose. 

I don't try to get in super close to the buds once they get sticky unless it is just intolerably crowded. Any leaf that is attached by enough of a peristem to be plucked easily is fair game. 

Bud leaves are attached deeper in the bud cluster and are difficult to remove by hand. I do not yank or pull down on the leaf. I snip it off with the thumbnail. Don't sweat the stubs that are left, they dry out and fall off. Best not to try to cut so close to the plant, especially in mold prone climates.

2.) Can Defoliation Be Used with Any Growing Medium?

Yes. Medium is not a factor. Go with what you like.

Defoliation works great for marijuana grown in soil, coco coir, perlite, vermiculite, DWC, bubbleponics, and any other growing medium that marijuana grows in.

3.) I've Never Defoliated and Now I'm Several Weeks into Flowering with Tall, BUSHY Out-of-Control Plants... Can I Still Start Defoliating?

If you've never defoliated before, go conservative to start, even if your plants look healthy.

Do it moderately at first and a little more daily. Pluck fan leaves to prevent branches from growing taller. During the flowering stage, you'll be able to see the increase in bud production.
 

So there you have it, a basic introduction to defoliation for huge yields. It's about time defoliation went mainstream!

 

 


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#22 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 12:10 PM

I've seen this argument made over the years, but I'm kind of doubtful. An experiment needs to be done with about a dozen clones from a single mother, with half defoliated and half left to do their thing. Without solid testing, nothing is proven... :chemist-smiley-emoticon:


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#23 CrazyDave

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:38 PM

From some of your past posts and help we both know I am a believer in Organics AT, the defoliation thing...I guess I would have to do as KD said and have a dozen or so clones to compare. 


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#24 anothertime

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:22 AM

here are my opinions and again i say opinions,these opinions are based on my experience both growing cannabis and living and being raised in the grain belt.leaves in my opinion are part of the health of the plant.im definately not here to dis this persons evaluation of deleafing but it certainly raises enough curiousity in me to definately test this method.as far as organics go im a strong believer that true organics is not possible.personnelly i think organics is a sales tool used to get a bigger profit margin on saleable products.i think that natural growing is the use of natural sourced products that were here before mans intervention,thus we are only trying to immitate the soil conditions before mans chemical era and interference in the way the earth replentishes ammendments into the soil.thus rather than call it organic i call it natural growing!!!!keep smiling and keep it green!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by anothertime, 12 August 2016 - 12:50 PM.

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#25 Deepwaterdude

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:02 PM

On the defoliation tip, I, who tend to try every new thing out there, have done this two grows ago, with Holy Grail Kush and Sour Diesel, both from Reserva Privada. I was super excited about it, seeing what others were doing w/400w. Two things; one, timing is everything and good defoliators know exactly at what point to defoliate; I didn't and screwed up the flowering. Two; serious defoliators will say not to do this with Sativa hybrids and pure sats as they don't respond well to it. I have to agree. Indica heavy hybrids like this quite a lot, as evidenced by the many folks who practice this on strains they know well. I'd say if you have a strain you know well and have dialed in, go for it, but don't do it with temperamental plants or Sats, kills the yield!

Also, never take more than 25% of the foliage in one session and drop the nutes way down for the week after, especially in hydro; less plant to feed after defoliating and'll burn what's left. Live n learn, n burn;)


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