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Longest time for a clone to root after air in the dirt exposure?


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#1 BikerPepe

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 02:37 PM

So... probably 6 weeks back, I did my cloning.  I'm a dirt guy... but I've noticed the fine soil mix I've been using for years has started taking a little longer to soak up the water.  This last run... I had my little dirt packs filled and soaking in a tray of b1 water overnight.  Next day I get ready to start cloning and I notice I've still got some air pockets in the soil.  Never a good thing... but I'm in a rush, got things to do around the property, fix the kids car, etc. so I figure I'll clone plenty extra and re-soak as I prop the clones.  I should have just given the dirt another day to soak.

 

Anyway... out of 24 clones taken, I generally keep 12.  Keeps me safely under the WA. MMJ 15 count.  I gave 'em 3 weeks before I tried to transplant to my 1 gal. flower pots.  At that point... there were 11 clones that were still looking good and strong.  Of those, only 3 actually had any roots showing.  All the others I checked, didn't have a single root showing... many I pulled the dirt apart and they hadn't even tried to sprout a root.  Damn the air pockets in my dirt and my rushing things when I knew better.

 

So... 3 weeks later now.  I've got 2 Master Kush's growing in veg, right where they should be.  I've got 2 Bubba Kush's doing good with 1 about 1 week behind in growth and the second just starting to grow.  I've got 1 Northern Lights that's closer to 2 weeks behind in growth, but finally taking... thank god (@ $200 for 10 seeds).

My real concern here is my 6 White Widows.  They've never been "easy" to work with, but this run I'm afraid of having to re-veg one or loosing the strain.  These are my personal favs and have been the strongest strain I've been able to come by in the last 8 years (I don't get out much).  They are looking good but not showing any real signs of growth... not a bit.

 

The dirt has been wet with b1 water but honestly, it's the spray feeding that's keeping them alive so far.  Been playing that dance, trying to keep 'em alive with leaf feeding but not giving them so much that they won't try to sprout feet.  I'm just curious... they are obviously struggling along but I'm wondering, how long can I keep nursing these babies before they start to find "their feet" or give up the struggle and die?

 

 

 

 

For whatever it's worth... I'm no noobie.  Been doing this little dirt dance for years now and generally have a 98%+ survival rate with my methods, passed down to me by my pops and some of his old hippy friends.  I've had clones in b1 water last two weeks in the fridge and still take when planted.  I've saved my share before and I'm trying too again... but I'm starting to get nervous now.

 

note to self and anyone else listening... when cloning with dirt, watch out for those damn air pockets.  If the soils not ready... it's better to wait or prep earlier than to rush and take the risk.  I hate it when I know better and do it anyway.  That's what happens when you think you've got it down and start taking stuff for granted.


Edited by BikerPepe, 06 January 2015 - 02:40 PM.

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#2 plant boy

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 07:15 AM

you ever try it with rock wool first then into the dirt?


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#3 KGBLuVR

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:42 AM

I just took 45 clones last night and I am trying the grodan rockwool plugs on this round as I have a friend that says they always get 98% to 100% clone rooting. I also soaked the clones in rooting solution for 20 minutes before dipping them in clone gel and placing them in trays. I used to use the same method as you but ran into problems with the wetting agents going bad and not allowing the soil to moisten. Sending positive energy your way bro, hope all gets better with the WW.


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#4 BikerPepe

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:35 PM

you ever try it with rock wool first then into the dirt?

 

Personally, I haven't had a lot of luck with Rockwool.  Just tried using it for some seed sprouting and first results were good, second results were not so much.  Guess we've been stuck using the dirt so long now... without further research on proper methods, I'm lost.

 

I tried just about everything I could read up on for the first few years.  A few of my friends thought I was going all "mad-scientist" in the basement.  Had mini-hydro, hempy-buckets, sog, scrog, LST, CSL, LED, perpetual veg mother, etc., etc. All right beside the old school methods handed down to me.  Maybe it was me or the strains I was coming across then, but I didn't see any better results with any of those methods and some were quite a bit more hassle.  Of course... not all "experiments" were setup as permanently or easily as they could have been... but trial runs are like that.  If it shows promise, go further... if not, stick with what you know and what works.

 

I've never been one to just take advise and let it be, so I didn't just fall in line with what I was taught but wanted to see for myself when I got out and started reading everything I could find.  For me... eventually it all come back to the old school.  Keep it simple, keep it safe and keep it clean.

 

 

 

I just took 45 clones last night and I am trying the grodan rockwool plugs on this round as I have a friend that says they always get 98% to 100% clone rooting. I also soaked the clones in rooting solution for 20 minutes before dipping them in clone gel and placing them in trays. I used to use the same method as you but ran into problems with the wetting agents going bad and not allowing the soil to moisten. Sending positive energy your way bro, hope all gets better with the WW.

 

Soak for 20 minutes?  Dang!  Who's got that kinda time on their hands? hehe.

 

Seriously though... glad to hear I'm not the only one with issues on those wetting agents.  I've noticed it before and found that 2 nights soaking seems to make all the difference.  I just spaced with other crap going on in my life and goofed this one up.

When I'm on my game... I'm totally satisfied with the fine soil results and would boast the same numbers of success... I just got off my game on this last one.

 

I usually cut, trim, soak in b1/h2o until I get all 4 (4 ea. in the dirt trays), drop all 4 in Dip-N-Grow liquid for 3-5 min. and then prop 'em up in the dirt.  Push down snug to make sure that a little water rises to the top of the dirt to assure the root area of the clone isn't exposed to any air and I'm good to go into the clone spot.  I also usually give 'em 3 wks. in clone like that though... instead of the standard 2 but when it all goes well, 100% root strong and usually just shy of root-bound.

 

My biggest sign of problems to come was propping the clones, snugging the dirt around the base and noticing some of that dirt sticking to my fingers.  That's the sign that the dirt wasn't ready.  Rest assured... 2 nights soaking in b1, from now on with no exceptions.

 

 

 

 

Noticed last night... top of the soaked dirt is starting to turn green.  Moisture and intense light... I knew I only had a little while.  I've considered digging out a lot of the wet dirt around the babies and refilling with clean, dry... but at this point, I'm thinking if they haven't rooted by now I'm likely out of luck.  Good thing I've played the re-veg before.  Not that hard to do... just time consuming.  That WW strain is worth it though, so come harvest... the best one I've got is going to get set aside, cleaned up and go back into the veg-room to restart her journey as the mother of every WW I'll have from here on out.

 

 

Thanks guys!


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#5 strider

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 08:07 AM

Only thing we ever use up here at Rancho de Ganja is Fox Farms Light Warrior, cloning gel and powder and a humi-dome.  Survival rate is nearly 100% every time and has worked well with every strain that we have ever run.  Clones will be ready in 10 to 14 days.  Good Luck!


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#6 BikerPepe

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:00 PM

that doesn't really help or answer my question.

 

 

Oh well... nursed at least one good widow back to health.  Going to veg out every survivor for a good, solid clone harvesting.

Cost me one crop with that mistake but not a big deal.  Saving the strain was my main concern and it's been done now.


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#7 Bueller

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:10 PM

I might add one thing,, when I plant my beans in the garden, I make a little area around the seed and fill with vermiculite, wicks the moisture to the bean and helps with germination... might surround the site with a little vermiculite mixed with the soil then stick,,,

 

Might resolve the air pocket issue and still stay in the chem free zone..

 

Pete


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#8 KGBLuVR

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:23 PM

Looks like the new plugs I tried are going to take 14 to 21 days but I think I actually figured out what my issue has been. The area I keep my clones in has been a might bit cooler than it should be and the heating mat I am using might be bad also. The grodan plugs have a slit down the side so I can check for roots and have roots sprouting now. I will know for sure in the next week as today is day 14 and quite a few as I said are showing roots. Glad to hear you save the WW you were wanting.


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#9 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:41 AM

Some strains of Kush are notoriously known for clone rooting issues and once in a while you ll find the odd balls that take excessively long and then there are the ones like OG that can rot when you least expect it.. 

 

I have seen clones take as long as two months to root due to stress and less then ideal conditions. As long as the cut has enough energy to complete this process it can endure a few months of nothing more than a slight uptake of water through the stem itself.If its still green and perky then all is well.

 

I like to allow my clones a little extra time due to the machine I use (Turbocloner). I have only been using it for a few years and that old strike and stick em in the dirt method was always a challenge here even though it works with a majority of strains it can be a bitch though with many of the wet feet sensitive type like Kush..

 

In the long term run of few decades I had better luck in rooting in Vermiculite/perlite then I did with soil, but this is due to the ideal moisture and drainage along with its sterility. Sometimes bacteria in the soil does not work to our advantage during cloning and I believe this is one of the reasons why most growers will not clone into soil beyond just the general slow rooting rate soil is known for when using it to root clones.. 

 

 

I too like that Kiss method and all too often I resort to the rule when I go advanced into something lol... I used to use the rheostat and heat mat and now with cloning I just keep the clone box in an area that is 78F and I walk away lol..Few weeks later I have roots and all is well ......


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#10 BikerPepe

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 02:05 AM

Well... 10 weeks from cutting and they're are still some coming out of it and starting to show growth.  The tenacity is impressive... and just as PPipe advised, patience and loving care and they'll surprise the heck out of you once in awhile.

 

 

 

PPipe... as you may have noted in my other comment in your Perpetual Growth thread... the little extra time for the soil clone works in my favor, so I keep at the old tried and true. ;)


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#11 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 08:36 AM

Right on, glad to hear all is well and that they have rooted. I know what ya mean too about the tried and true.. We all have to omit the workings of others while tuning into our own setup and variables . 

 

 I have to say your on your own time an dime my friend.. I feel that as long as the grower is content and the plant at hand is too, then everything else is pretty irrelevant being that you and the plant are bonded. 

 

Hope all is well and that your garden grows like Jacks Magic Beanstalk hehe well maybe not that fast, but you get my drift I think hahah

 

L8tr my friend, PeacePipe


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#12 BikerPepe

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 12:41 AM

Much appreciated PPipe.  Like you say... I'm happy and they're happy (now).  It's all gravy from there. ;)


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#13 PlantBoxer

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 07:06 AM

I know this is an old thread, but one thing that has worked at times when I ran up against a difficult strain to root, but I found after I'd put them in medium, I'd use a piece of shade cloth, weed blocker, to cover about 60% of my dome. It's almost like the cuttings were/needed starved for light and they rooted when many other tries failed badly.

 

Another trick, I had documented many years ago on OverGrow, was I found I could hold SOME strain cuttings in between brown paper, in ziplocks, in my refrigerator crisper, for up to 68 days, then bring them out, scrap,dip, insert in medium and prop up. 

My numbers of good ones to lost ones of course goes way down, BUT I did manage to save around 15% of all I tried at the 68 day mark.

Up to month 1 was the best or highest % of those to root after being papered.

 

It was just something I had to know and try out for myself.


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#14 BikerPepe

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:25 PM

always glad to hear other methods that have worked PB.  68 days in "stasis" is quite impressive.  as I said... I can keep the cuttings for a good couple weeks in B1 water, in the fridge... but 68 days is outstanding.

 

 

For whatever it's worth... the last 3 widows are finally starting to show regular growth rates.  I killed the one widow that was kicking ass... well, I didn't "Kill" her, so much as clone her to pieces.  Clones have been going for almost 2 weeks now and are looking good.  Everything's getting back on track with the perpetual cycle now.  I'll have one harvest with just 5 plants, instead of the normal 12 but I saved the ww strain and that's what counts.


Edited by BikerPepe, 13 February 2015 - 06:29 PM.

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