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Questions about Gavitas and proper layout.


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#1 Kifer

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:59 PM

Hello everyone, 

 

I hope that I am posting in the right section, I could not find a specific lighting section, but then again, I easily could have missed it.  In any case.

 

Does anyone have experience with double ended fixtures, specifically the Gavita 1000 or better yet their 600/750 watt version (that I do not believe is available yet in the US)? I think my height, roughly 7', is too low to run the 1000, but I have heard that you can tune them down to 600 watt.  Which prompts the question, would it be worth it to buy the 600 watt version, if I can just tune the larger one down?  Is my 7' limitation enough to allow me to use the 1000 watt double ended, or even the 600 watt version?  I heard you need 36" of clearance for the 1000s, which would make their penetration useless with the size of light + pots + plants.  The 600 watt version, as I have been led to believe can be 18" - 24" from the light, which should just give me enough room.  I do believe the reflectors may have been designed to be hunger higher, and may have a smaller than desired footprint when suspended from only 7'. Would I switch the reflector, and if so, to which?  These lights are not typically aircooled, as I have heard that can affect the efficiency.

With all respect, I appreciate any helpful input, or clearing up about what I have asked and stated.  I am in the process of dialing in, and have just begun.  Please feel free to criticize (respectfully) any aspect of my grow that you have experience with and could help me to improve.

 

My setup now is two old six hundred watt hps, I can tailor my room to the size I need, and am thinking of doing three 600 watt hps (hopefully double ended eventually).  I currently have six plants one month in flower (in one gal) and six plants one week in flower (in five gal).  The smaller pots were a bit of an experiment, and I will be using mostly 12"x12" white squre pots that I believe are aprox 4.5gal.  I use roots organic bloom, roots trinity, then mess up all the organic with bloombastic to finish.  I give some veg fert the first month or so in flower, slowly weaning them off.  The rooms are a little too warm at the moment, 82F, but the air gets moved around decently.  The mix I use is Sunshine Mix 4, which I believe is just promix with a little coco and some biotics.  I am growing basic kush variations, that are pretty nice, I will try to get a few pictures up..

 

 This is definitely a work in progress.  I started before everything was perfect to get things going, and work off the rush.  The first test grow was a nice little success for me, but I am sure most of you would have laughed :) sokay, I would too if it werent mine.  

 

I eventually hope to close the room, use co2 and ac.. but those would be new to me.  

 

I know, I know, so many questions, and I am sure I am leaving many out, no need to answer them all.  If you have experience, and are feeling helpful, I would appreciate it in any area.


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#2 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:34 PM

You treat double ended bulbs the same as normal bulbs. Using a fixture with a glass lens the heights will be the same.

 

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The main limiting factor with HID lighting is radiant heat. With a 7 foot overhead your going to have problems with a 1000 if your plants have a lot of stretch though this can be handled with LST and scrogging. My personal preference on lights is a 600 because it has the best lumen's per watt output with a good footprint. Also two 600's will give you a bigger footprint than a 1000 for a slight increase in power use.

 

This is going to be a thing where you sit down and decide what you want before you do it and this is one of those things where opinions are like assholes because everyone's got one. :lol:


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#3 Kifer

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:51 PM

 I very much appreciate the perspective.. I do wonder though; I would like to respectfully disagree with you about double ended being the same as single.  I will admit that I have no personal experience with them, let me make that clear, but by all accounts I have encountered from people using them, there is noticeable difference.   I was told by the US rep for Epaps that I would probably not be able to run 1000 double ended in 7', not because of the radiant heat, but because they require minimum spacing of 3', even if I can keep the room cool, giving me not enough depth to utilize their full potential.    I have heard many accounts of growers switching from 1000 watt single ended to 600 watt doubles, and not losing production.  I have been led to believe, through research and personal anecdotes, that 600 w DE is roughly equivalent to 1000 single, are there any double ended growers that can verify or deny?

 

I agree that this is the type of thing one sits down to plan, and believe me, I do often.  It is also the type of thing that I will always be open to improve, as will all things.  And I do know that everyone will have their own, unique opinions, and I understand that people will disagree.  That is okay, methods work differently for different people.  I just want dialogue with experienced growers who have similar parameters as what I am trying to accomplish, I think nothing can be lost, and much can be gained.  This is why I want to stress that although everyone may not agree, I respect and appreciate all constructive, positive advice/feedback.

 

-Kifer


Also, although I have heard that it is possible to air cool the hood for DE (not the light directly, unless I am mistaken) I have not seen or heard of anyone actually doing this.


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#4 jm420

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:54 AM

sunlite supply sells doble ended aircooled hoods

theyre made to cool at proper operating temps


https://www.sunlight...ooled-reflector


Edited by jm420, 08 August 2014 - 06:55 AM.

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#5 BikerPepe

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

I don't have any experience with the "double ends" either but I have been working over the maximum efficiency in a low space.

 

I switched from a single 1000 HPS to 2x 600 HPS on tracks.  The increase in energy use is minimal and the spread of light and cross penetration is considerable.

I seem to generate less heat and have better results with weight and less "popcorn" growth with the extra penetration.  I can also mount these smaller bulbs closer to the ceiling and gain a little more room for growth height.

 

Funny thing was... at first I mainly switched because my 1000 HPS was hanging down in the middle of the room and blocking my only path through the girls.

 

I've had such great success with this... I'm considering swapping out the 2x 600's for 4x 400's and removing the light tracks (should net me another 4"-6" height).

Then I'd like to switch the 600's over to MH and replace the 1000 in the veg. room with the 2x 600's.  Again... minimal increase in power usage, greater spread and cross penetration and maybe even a little less heat generated in the room.


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#6 Turf

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 07:42 AM

i run both 600's and 1000's in a room with less than 7' ceiling.  i do fine most of the time, but if i burn a plant, its under one of the 1000s.

 

a standard 600 will do just fine in that space, a 1000watt will be a similar foot print at the low hanging height and nothing but a heat problem.

 

dont believe the sales crap, those lights are 600s, compare them to 600s.

 

if they say you cant utilize the full potential at that height, why would you still consider them?  


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#7 Kifer

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 02:29 PM

I run 600s, with plenty of space too.. I am sure I could put 1000s in there, especially if they were air cooled, and single ended.  I am not sure about with the 1000 DEs, although I may be able to run them, I wouldn't have enough space to keep distance between lights for ideal.

 

I appreciate the perspective, there are a lot of sales gimmicks out there, I just do not believe this to be one. Especially since the rep for the 1000 Epaps told me that they were probably not suitable for me, due to height restrictions.  (I read the Gavita outperforms, but who knows.  Gavita will have a 600/750 version out soon though)

 

They didn't say I can't utilize the full potential, I was asking that, because that is how I understand it.  But even if they werent at "full potential", if they are more efficient even if they are tuned down, and I can get more penetration, and better production, than with single ended, then it is okay that I am not using them to their full potential. 

 

I understand that people are reluctant to trust newer technology, especially when it is supposed to make giant improvements.  But I am really curious about people who have actually used these, because I have heard mostly good things from people I have talked to, and read about, who have experience with them.

 

Thank you all again, I respect and appreciate it all.


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#8 Kifer

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:14 PM

Food for thought, I hope posting videos is all right.

 

 

Or not.. perhaps posting links are not allowed.. In any case, monster gardens has a comparison video up, if anyone is interested. *edit


Edited by Kifer, 11 August 2014 - 10:16 PM.

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#9 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:53 AM

Video's are just fine and links are OK....


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#10 Kifer

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

https://www.youtube....rA9ZTNzPkJilVCQ  

 

Ahh, maybe I just didn't post correctly at first.  In any case, this is a comparison between two popular double ended lights.  I do not know the extent to who may be affiliated, ect, but the information seems intriguing at least. It also discusses some of the advantages of double over single ended.  I am still very interested to hear from people with experience.


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