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Coconut oil, Olive oil, and 'first pass metabolism'

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#1 PsyCro



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Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:32 AM

Hey everyone, first post, so getting right down to the nitty gritty.!  Actually i just signed up here after being to several other forums along the way while researching, and to be honest this seems to be the most down to earth forum, with competent users online as well.  Just the fact that SkunkPharm crew hangs here is enough for me!


My fist grow is coming to an end, and i'll be using it to make oil to treat pancreatic cancer (not mine, family members).  Of all the info i have found it seems oils/edibles are doing just as fine a job as more concentrated extracts.. so, i was thinking of going the olive oil route.


As far as extraction is concerned, from my research it seems any fat will do the job, but nonetheless many prefer coconut oil, and even state that it is more potent.  From what i understand any fat will do the job, that is, properly extract cannabinoids, give or take a very small difference.  Also from what i understand, coconut oil probably isn't extracting any better than other oils/fats, but RATHER providing better uptake.


So, that brings me to my next thought.. first pass metabolism, or rather, avoiding it!  It seems that bioavailability increases immensly if the oil is taken with and/or after a meal, which is what i was aiming for when administering my olive oil.
I'm pretty sure though that most people take their oils/edibles on an empty stomach.  Which brings me to believe that THATS the reason they prefer coconut oil, which probably IS more effective on an empty stomach.  And after all, the empty stomach will give quicker results which i'm sure most people are after.


Yes, my method of administering will take much longer to kick in, but with the aid of a meal in the end i should be getting full uptake regardless of which oil is being used.


Make sense??

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#2 KnuckleDragger


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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:28 AM

Welcome on board, it's good to have you here. I think you've got it pretty much figured out. It's pretty much soluble in any oil so it's just a matter of preference. People with more experience with oils will likely be along to comment shortly.

#3 PsyCro



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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:31 AM

Cool, any additional info is welcomed!


Just to let you in on how i was thinking to go about extraction and dosage (unless i get conviced otherwise):


I'd be making oil with freshly harvested but and trim, basically straight off the tree.  Double bolier would be used for a max temp of 105 degrees celcius.  I'd cover the slightly broken up plant material with oil just barely, and once the oil reaches max temp simmer for 2 hours.  From some decarb charts that i've seen this should be optimal decarbing 'en-route', probably leaving a little THCA as well.

At that point seperate the oil and bud, and now that the bud is much much smaller in size, put it back into a much smaller amount of fresh oil, grind it up with a hand blender, and let that go for another hour to salvage any leftovers.  Combine all the oil in the end, and then figure out dosage, which i've calculated will be a third to one teaspoon, taken shortly after a meal, but first swished around the mouth for a couple of minutes to allow for some sublingual absorption.


Whaddya'll think??

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#4 PsyCro



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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:49 AM

So i've found a few answers...


here for example from BadKitty on another forum:


""" That's right! Different triglycerides are absorbed and processed, by different parts of your digestive system, when using a specific oil as your solvent, your solute or cannabis glandular material will take on its unique absorption properties. 

By encouraging portal vein and liver absorption via medium-chain or MCT containing coconut oilpalm kernel oil, and to a lesser extent clarified butter which contains roughly only 1/3 the MCT content of the previous two, you can benefit from greater amounts of the conversion from D9THC, to the more powerful 11-OH-THC that occurs in the liver 

LCT containing oils are absorbed lymphatically and as such encourage a greater amount of lymphatic absorption, which bypasses the liver, and can benefit patients who need to medicate via capsules first thing in the morning after a long evening and night without eating.

Unfortunately, material absorbed by the lymphs bypasses the liver, and any material absorbed this way will NOT be converted to the 11-OH-THC, responsible for providing some of the more intense sensations edibles are known for.  """


And here from user  LUCHIANO on another forum:


""" Coconut oil is good for a quicker absorption but if you want a whole body experience for health and getting high in the long term you want monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, and saturated fat because these fats effect different parts of the body. The mono goes to the lymphatic system which means it will help your immune system and cannabinoids have been shown to lower pain causing substances in the immune system. Poly goes to the muscles and give energy so you won't be tired or if it's dark and you have carbs it will help your body relax due to poly absorbing a lot of oxygen and getting the body going. Saturated fats go to the organs and help make hormones. MCT saturated fats are a mix of going to the organs a little but they mostly go to the muscles to be used as a quick source of energy compared to the other fats. All these fats do the same thing in small amounts but they specialize in the things I mentioned.

The real secret is eating these fats with something that will slow down their absorption such as soluble fiber(saturated fat sauted with some spinach or another green leafy vegetable) or eating foods rich in these fats(mono and poly with some saturated) like nuts and seeds or avocado that has other substances that help there absorption to be slow and water soluble(protein & lecithin) and lipase enzymes which help break down fat(raw avocado). Also minerals which help break down the fat like niacin and vitamin b6(green leafy vegetables). Remember the smaller the oils are broken down the more gets absorbed as well as used by the body which means more of an effect off of very little.

What this means is instead of making oil ahead of time, that can be dangerous if not done and stored properly, you just add some herb or concentrate to your food as a taste enhancer except you fell this "taste".  """



Naturally i did some more research on the subject, and it concurs with the above statements.  So its not which oil or method is better, but rather for what and how it will be used!

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