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Grain Alcohol 190 Proof Cannabis Oil Feco Extracts—A Civil Discussion

ethyl RSO Grain alcohol cannabis Rick Simpson extraction techniques testimonials questions discussion

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#1 LAD525

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:58 PM

I am starting this thread as Jangel suggested it might be good to have a clearer discussion about cannabis oils/tars made from a food grade, non-chemical solvent called Everclear (Brand name) or simply, GRAIN ALCOHOL. What would be fantastic is if this thread could focus on the experiences, testimonials, questions, problems, and other issues that involve MAKING, USING or SUGGESTING cannabis oils/tars made from grain alcohol. I want to be clear. This is NOT a thread that is meant to bash Rick Simpson. But due to what has taken place this past week over on Rick's Facebook page and due to the unexpected hot button thread I started on May 19 ( https://www.greenpas...ego-has-landed/ ) it's probably a great idea to see if we can educate each other and focus on the positive aspects of using what is being called a FECO or Full Extract Cannabis Oil. For purposes of making it easy here, why don't we agree to refer to it as FECO so we don't confuse it with RSO (Rick Simpson Oil) which seems to now imply that RSO is made from either ISO or Naphtha. So, if we don't have any objections to calling the grain alcohol extract FECO, let's move forward. It must be said that when I've recommended the oil to patients and directed them to Rick's "Run From the Cure" video, all I get back are a LOT of questions. The people I work with are really health centered. They have gotten all the chemicals that they can out of their environments and bodies. There is no way that any of these people would EVER consider ANY medicine that is extracted with petrochemicals such as Naphtha. Thus, when they watch Rick's video and hear about Naphtha being used, they are against considering it. Then I tell them that I don't use Naphtha and that I make a FECO, and then explain the process to them. "But wait," they say, "Rick said you have to use either Naphtha or ISO and that grain alcohol doesn't work." And that's often where the conversation ends. They are scared to "waste their time" with a FECO because they are led to believe it's "worthless" or, as someone over on Rick's page likes to call it, "low grade trash." Here's what I agree with Rick Simpson on: 1. Use an Indica dominant strain 2. Use high quality, organically grown bud, NOT fan leaves. (I added "organically", BTW) This is NOT to say that fan leaves are "worthless." We don't know enough yet and it may turn out that a combination of bud, leaf and even stems might produce an even potent and balanced medicine. I know that Dr. Courtney is getting great results with juicing fan leaves of 3 month old female plants. So, I'm not about to diss on fan leaves until someone shows me that they are "worthless" (and I don't think that'll happen anytime soon smileyheart.gif . I'll start this thread off now with my own experiences with FECO. I've seen it work wonders on a serious burn, healing it in FOUR days. I've used it for severe toothache pain and it wiped it out in about thirty minutes. I've used it successfully for insomnia. Even edibles don't touch its effectiveness. I've added it to coconut oil and made topical salves for pain and inflammation. Finally, and probably most notably, is that I've given it to a Stage 3 colon cancer patient and she is gradually improving with her doctor telling her to "keep doing whatever she's doing." Okay......your turn. LAD
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#2 Luc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 01:06 AM

I'm all for discussing how to make Cannabis Oil, and how to safely produce it for consumption. But do we need more unclear and confusing acronyms or names? Can't we just call things by how it was processed and their common names, like (Quick Wash Ethanol) QWET Cannabis Oil, QWISO Cannabis Oil, or THC infused fill in the blank Fats/Oil.

Rick Simpson started this whole misnomer nonsense by calling his stuff Hemp Oil so he could be different. Now it just causes confusion. Call it what it is without using some new designer names or acronyms, this will help keep new people from getting confused.

FECO or Full Extract Cannabis Oil is just as bad a name as Hemp Oil. How is FECO made, what is FECO, can I buy it at Whole Foods, is it the same as Hemp Seed Oil. We have seen these questions and more from newbies trying to figure all these confusing terms.

Everclear or Grain Alcohol is a semi polar solvent, so is Isopropyl alcohol. Both will dissolve Oils and water solubles like Chlorophyll. Water is a polar solvent, and can't dissolve Cannabis and other oils.

Then there are Non-Polar Solvents like Hexane, Naphtha, Ether, Butane, and others. To get an absolute Cannabis Oil, a Non-Polar solvent works best because it only dissolves Oils, not the water soluble plant matter. The hard part or the worrisome part is, has all of the solvent been removed and is it safe to consume? Graywolf has some great postings on solvent safety. Any solvent can be dangerous in the right amount, even water.

Problem with Rick Simpson is all the middlemen that do websites and posting in his name or on his behalf, we can't trust most of these because they are second hand hearsay and lies. Rick needs to post unedited videos where he is the one saying what he wants to say, and actually says something of substance. In past videos Rick insinuates that there are bad people saying that he said she said and other nonsense vague BS. Rick uses the excuse that he is not tech savvy or that he is in countries with bad internet, so he can't post videos to clear up the confusion he and his so called friends and enemies have caused.

I don't bother with any so called Rick Simpson websites, forums, or chats because of all the past misinformation and lies. Even today I don't know what or whom to believe or trust, there are too many lies. Only Rick can clear up the muddy waters surrounding his RSO HEMP OIL cure problems.

I just asked my 23 yr old son "what do you think the acronym FECO means" his reply "sounds like shit, fecal matter", that was my first thought also. Here try some of my FECO it's good shit... :-)

I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade here, so please don't take offense to my comments. I have some of the same concerns with toxicity as most of us do with many of these non-polar solvents. If done right non-polar solvents like Hexane and Butane can be safe if properly purged. Or they can be dangerous, and blow up your house and put you on the 6 O'clock news.

Luc
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#3 kittypup

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:34 AM

For over a year I used everclear (190 proof) to make my tincture. I have RA and type 2 diabetes and it kept it all under control better than I could ever imagine! Blood sugar is right where it should be and the RA shows no signs of progression at all. In fact one winter all I had was a lone male plant I made a tincture from. It kept my joints from swelling and pretty much pain free and the blood sugar right in line, it just didn't help with sleep or pain if I over did it. Don't think you can get much better than that.. for me that is! The laws here changed and now the everclear is only 151 proof and very expensive. It doesn't extract as well so I've changed to ISO which is available here at 91%. I make the oil.... then infuse into butter or cooking oil for medibles and reconstitute with rum for my tincture. I've really seen no difference in the affect since the change. Hope this helps.... hugs all around
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#4 Graywolf

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:20 AM

May I agree with Luc that FECO brings to mind fecal matter, and we already have names for the different extraction methods?

I also agree that calling it Hemp Oil is confusing, because that is often what hemp seed oil is marketed under. RSO works for me, and to mean oil extracted using Rick Simpson's recommended process.

The flip side of the coin, is that RSO conveniently covers every extraction process known to man for some of the more ignorant on the subject, and has simply become an acronym for Cannabis Essential Oils.

We have presented classes demonstrating multiple polar and non polar extraction methods, only to have a smug faced zealot announce that is all well and good, but how do I make RSO oil? When advised that it was covered in detail in QWISO, and that Hexane works the same as Naphtha, they have even asked where there the rice cooker is.

Mostly they are really confused as to where to easily find anything but industrial grade naphtha, without going to the same sources that sell more refined solvents, as am I.

On the subject of the utility 190 proof, I started extracting with 190 proof ethanol sold under the Clear Springs or Everclear labels. It is an azeotropic distillation, which puts it at around 95.5% ethanol, with the balance water.

We also extract with Butane, Isopropyl, Denatured, and Hexane, depending on the use, and the test panels have all uniformly saluted them all, for a range of maladies. The key issue, appears to me to be what is extracted, not how.

I have extracted cannabis essential oils with ethanol using both reflux and QWET techniques, and prefer the QWET, because like Isopropyl, Ethanol extracts water solubles and other polar elements. Tying the water up as ice and extracting at low temperatures minimizes that issue.

I got the greatest yield refluxing with Ethanol, but also extracted a boat load of ostensibly non active ingredients, so the numbers are apples and oranges.

More to the point, this argument is exactly why we purchased a gas chromatograph, so that we can present concrete data on what exactly is extracted from the same lot of material, using the different processes.

The shack nears completion, so that will soon be on line, and we can supply that empirical information. I grow tired of hearing why one single person has the best product, without concise supportive data.

It reminds me of listening to two street dope peddlers arguing over who has the best shit, with no other intelligent input than their stuff is gooooooood, and their competitors product is adulterated trash. If it were not more about secondary motives such as money, I'm thinking that they would be able to define concisely why.

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#5 jangel

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

Good going LAD on starting this. Already there is much wisdom here. What concerns me most over all of this is the lack of concern by many in the RS camp to find the BEST way to do this, without listening to facts discovered by others. The closed mindedness that says only one way is the best way. This is where folks with practical scientific results, like graywolf and skunkpharm are so needed. Not tio leave anyone out, Lad and Luc I know you too have experience and it all is of huge value. Thanks to all for contributing, in advance. Keep it real folks and let us not have any egos here. Peace
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#6 McKinnon

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:09 AM

I´ll sit down here, ready to listen and learn
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#7 LAD525

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:39 PM

I'm not a chemist nor do I have extensive understanding of how to reflux or distill or whatever. I have a degree in botanical medicine and nutrition. I've been making herbal extracts and salves for over thirty years. I was taught herbal medicine from some of the best "old timers" around and I studied around the world with some of the most gifted minds in the field of natural medicine. These people were hardcore in their belief of natural medicine over chemical drugs. Many of them didn't trust anyone. But they all understood the land, respected the seasons, and lived in harmony with nature as best they could. I can tell you that NONE of these people EVER SUGGESTED USING TOXIC, PETROCHEMICALS to extract tinctures, extracts, etc. from plant matter. They would have looked at me cross-eyed if I'd mentioned that to them. I lived in a state at that time where grain alcohol (190 proof/95% alcohol) was illegal to sell. BUT that didn't matter to the teacher of the class I was taking then. He REQUIRED all of us to show up with two gallons of grain alcohol in order to learn how to make "classic extracts." (Back then, we were extracting St. John's wort, echinacea, dandelion roots, sassafras roots and comfrey roots.) So, I hoped in my car and drove EIGHT HOURS and two states over to buy the grain alcohol. What I'm saying here is that the "excuse" that you can't find grain alcohol or that grain alcohol is "cheaper" is not the best reason to turn to petrochemical solvents. And again, I didn't start this thread to debate the efficacy of petros over grain alcohol. Why is that point such a stumbling block? Why can't we just have a single thread where people can learn about another method (solvent) that is FOOD GRADE and a million times safer to ingest than Naphtha or ISO? I learned a LONG time ago from another one of my mentors who used a "live blood" microscope (a microscope that allows the doctor/technician to poke your finger and see what is going on in your bloodstream while the blood is still "active") that petrochemicals show up in the bloodstream as dark masses that literally suffocate the cells and prevent oxygenation of the blood. We are already drowning in petrochemical "hell" with all the crap in our environment and water and food. I counsel people all the time on how to detox their bodies, alkalize their blood, etc. from these various toxins. With the fallout from Fukishima, it's important more than ever to be vitally aware of these airborne toxins. Knowing all this, why in God's name would I ever consider adding more toxic load to my body by extracting my beautiful buds with "paint thinner." Anyway, hopefully more people will join here and discuss their experience (and hopefully some great gas chromo data!!!!) with all of us. Many thanks! LAD
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#8 ThiaBo

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 02:23 PM

Hello, I have done Hemp Oil with grain alcohol in the last 11 months I can say its excellent quality, I would question some points on the grain alcohol to dissolve the soluble matter of the plant, I would confront it with the juice cannabis where get medicinal properties in the juice of the leaves that is precisely the soluble matter of the plant. The extraction with alcohol cereal could be adding oil to the medicinal qualities? I think so, chlorophyll is a good example ... it oxygenates the cells which is a proprietary anti-cancer ... why not have it in oil? The extraction mode also does not have such influence in increasing the power, it is connected to effectiveness in removing the resin from the plant. I do four strained leaving between 10 and 20 minutes in alcohol with the msm herb changing the alcohol between the strained This removes all the resin of the plant, and did all the resin from the plant as would be weaker oil? I do not believe that it is ... I cured my health problems in just over two months with this oil ... * Sorry I use a translator

Edited by ThiaBo, 27 May 2012 - 02:30 PM.

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#9 Graywolf

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:56 AM

Hello,

I would confront it with the juice cannabis where get medicinal properties in the juice of the leaves that is precisely the soluble matter of the plant.

I think so, chlorophyll is a good example ... it oxygenates the cells which is a proprietary anti-cancer ... why not have it in oil?



We've had good luck with ours too bro! Gawd bless cannabis!

I do have a question though; did you process the juice to remove the medicinal qualities like cannabinoids and other terpenes that we already know are there?

Chlorophyll is salubrious until you have too much. It turns some patients digestive tracts inside out.

Google chlorophyll poisoning and look at the symptoms.

Oxygen is pernicious to humans at 75% atmosphere. Poison is in the dosage.
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#10 Graywolf

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:22 AM

I'm not a chemist nor do I have extensive understanding of how to reflux or distill or whatever. I have a degree in botanical medicine and nutrition. I've been making herbal extracts and salves for over thirty years. I was taught herbal medicine from some of the best "old timers" around and I studied around the world with some of the most gifted minds in the field of natural medicine. These people were hardcore in their belief of natural medicine over chemical drugs. Many of them didn't trust anyone. But they all understood the land, respected the seasons, and lived in harmony with nature as best they could. I can tell you that NONE of these people EVER SUGGESTED USING TOXIC, PETROCHEMICALS to extract tinctures, extracts, etc. from plant matter. They would have looked at me cross-eyed if I'd mentioned that to them. I lived in a state at that time where grain alcohol (190 proof/95% alcohol) was illegal to sell. BUT that didn't matter to the teacher of the class I was taking then. He REQUIRED all of us to show up with two gallons of grain alcohol in order to learn how to make "classic extracts." (Back then, we were extracting St. John's wort, echinacea, dandelion roots, sassafras roots and comfrey roots.) So, I hoped in my car and drove EIGHT HOURS and two states over to buy the grain alcohol. What I'm saying here is that the "excuse" that you can't find grain alcohol or that grain alcohol is "cheaper" is not the best reason to turn to petrochemical solvents.

And again, I didn't start this thread to debate the efficacy of petros over grain alcohol. Why is that point such a stumbling block? Why can't we just have a single thread where people can learn about another method (solvent) that is FOOD GRADE and a million times safer to ingest than Naphtha or ISO? I learned a LONG time ago from another one of my mentors who used a "live blood" microscope (a microscope that allows the doctor/technician to poke your finger and see what is going on in your bloodstream while the blood is still "active") that petrochemicals show up in the bloodstream as dark masses that literally suffocate the cells and prevent oxygenation of the blood.

We are already drowning in petrochemical "hell" with all the crap in our environment and water and food. I counsel people all the time on how to detox their bodies, alkalize their blood, etc. from these various toxins. With the fallout from Fukishima, it's important more than ever to be vitally aware of these airborne toxins. Knowing all this, why in God's name would I ever consider adding more toxic load to my body by extracting my beautiful buds with "paint thinner."

Anyway, hopefully more people will join here and discuss their experience (and hopefully some great gas chromo data!!!!) with all of us. Many thanks!

LAD



More than happy to help you explore ethanol extraction only, without further diluting this thread, though there are a number of points above that bear further discussion.

I'm doing so, not to endorse an ethanol only position, though it works well too.

It is certainly less scary to folks who aren't educated in chemistry, and as most folks aren't, for that reason alone we use it exclusively for oral meds.

It is a waste of time arguing facts with folks that are scared.

If we couldn't get ethanol and dying was scarier to them, we would use an alternative that we could lay hands and which we could purge to the levels deemed safe by medical science.

Ethanol is most certainly less critical when purging, because we can just call it a tincture, if we leave any behind. The ethanol adds to the medicinal effects.

Because our liver doesn't convert it to acetone or formaldehyde, as it does isopropyl and methanol, it doesn't cause deafness and blindness. However, the MSDS data shows ethanol as lethal at lower levels than either Isopropyl or methanol.

For instance, Ethanol Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 3632 mg/kg (Mouse), Isopropyl Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 5143 mg/kg (Mouse), and Methanol Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 5628 mg/kg [Rat] ( as taken from Science Labs MSDS).

The key of course, is to remove the ethanol below the levels of concern, which for death was .0036 times the body weight of 50% of the mice that didn't survive the test.

Chronic use of ethanol has been studied more closely that that for isopropyl and methanol, because they didn't first go deaf or blind first, but take a look at the carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic, and developmental toxicity data.

Clearly an extremely useful tool in the tool box, but not mothers milk and nothing to consume large quantities, or large amounts chronically.

Section 11: Ethanol Toxicological Information

Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact. Inhalation. Ingestion.

Toxicity to Animals: Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 3632 mg/kg (Mouse) (Calculated value for the mixture).

Chronic Effects on Humans:

CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified PROVEN by State of California Proposition 65 [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof]. Classified A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].

MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof]. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].

TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified PROVEN for human [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].

DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY:

Classified Development toxin [PROVEN] [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof]. Classified Reproductive system/toxin/female, Reproductive system/toxin/male [POSSIBLE] [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].

Other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator), of ingestion.

Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals:

Lowest Published Dose/Conc: LDL[Human] - Route: Oral; Dose: 1400 mg/kg LDL[Human child] - Route: Oral; Dose: 2000 mg/kg LDL[Rabbit] - Route: Skin; Dose: 20000 mg/kg (Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof)

Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:

May affect genetic material (mutagenic) Causes adverse reproductive effects and birth defects (teratogenic) , based on moderate to heavy consumption. May cause cancer based on animal data.

Human: passes through the placenta, excreted in maternal milk. (Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof)

Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Acute potential health effects: Skin: causes skin irritation Eyes: causes eye irritation Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal tract irritation with nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and alterations in gastric secretions. May affect behavior/central nervous system (central nervous system depression - amnesia, headache, muscular incoordination, excitation, mild euphoria, slurred speech,

drowsiness, staggaring gait, fatigue, changes in mood/personality, excessive talking, dizziness, ataxia, somnolence, coma/narcosis, hallucinations, distorted perceptions, general anesthetic), peripherial nervous system (spastic paralysis)vision (diplopia). Moderately toxic and narcotic in high concentrations.

May also affect metabolism, blood, liver, respiration (dyspnea), and endocrine system.

May affect respiratory tract, cardiovascular(cardiac arrhythmias, hypotension), and urinary systems.

Inhalation: May cause irritation of the respiratory tract and affect behavior/central nervous system with symptoms similar to ingestion.

Chronic Potential Health Effects:

Skin: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may casue dermatitis, an allergic reaction.

Ingestion: Prolonged or repeated ingestion will have similiar effects as acute ingestion. It may also affect the brain. (Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof)

We are confident that any residual ppm of ethanol that we leave behind below sensory threshold are not a health issue, and use it extensively.

For instance, even when we extract with something else, we most often wash and winterize it with Ethanol to clean it up further. We even drop out not active ingredients from extractions we've made with Isopropyl and Methanol, because it is less aggressive.

My first extractions were green lizard with ethanol, followed by refluxing and recycling the ethanol using a simple pot still.

I've stopped refluxing plant material in ethanol, but still reflux kif or bubble to extract their oils in it.

I stopped refluxing plant material in it, because of patient feedback, and relied instead on QWET techniques to extract with it, which produces a potent amber oil.

As far as effectiveness, Ethanol is a polar solvent, so it takes both polar and non polar components at different rates.


Polar solvents extract the polar carboxylic forms of the cannabinoids more readily than the non polar alkanes, but not the non polar decarboxylated forms.

It can therefore be used in conjunction with a non polar solvent to separate different polar and non polar constituents. We use a lot of it in the lab.

Lastly, I still drink ethanol, though not that often due to it raising my blood pressure, but admire it highly in the form of a Beefeater Martini, Cognac, a fine wine, or micro brew.

As the Great Spirit as mah witness, I never did so while pregnant, though possibly while inducing pregnancy as a much younger man!








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#11 jangel

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:04 PM

"As the Great Spirit as mah witness, I never did so while pregnant, though possibly while inducing pregnancy as a much younger man!"
Graywolf


LOL! Gray! You funny Hunny!
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#12 Santi

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:42 PM

Hey everybody Just joined the site a couple months ago been reading a whole bunch on here since joining. It was interesting to read the "Ego Has Landed" thread. I have watched RS "Run From The Cure" a few times and I will agree it was a little bit confusing. After watching the documentary I had many questions and that is how I ended up on this site. Not a bad thing. Like I said I have been reading tons the past couple months so I am a bit confused. When I watched the documentary with my Dad who has not smoked cannabis since he was probably in Vietnam. The first thing he said was how poisonous Naptha is and how it's illegal in the U.S. I am not 100% sure if Naptha is illegal but I took my Dad's word that it was. That led me to having more questions about how to make this healing oil in the safest healthiest way. And whether or not I had to worry about blowing myself up making the oil with these chemicals. I couldn't help but think of Billy Bob in his trailer cooking up some Meth and the trailer exploding. It didn't make sense to me! Why use a possibly poisonous substance to treat or cure Cancer? That seemed to go against all I have learned about natural medicine. To knowingly put toxins into a human who is trying to get their body healthy to fight Cancer naturally seemed to contradict itself. And isn't there a way that I can do this without worrying about blowing myself up if I happened to make a dumb mistake? I figured what the heck do I know? I told myself this Rick Simpson guy is well known and is curing Cancer so I guess it's a safe extraction method. I ended up calling someone who was associated with Phoenix Tears and ironically I was told about some of the negative things going on within the P.T./R.S. organization. This person directed me to this site and another. Which led to me reading the thread "Ego Has Landed" and I was horrified. The thread just solidified my view that human beings cannot handle power because inevitably the Ego and/or greed corrupts. I wanted to reply to this thread in hopes of having some questions answered for myself and other newbies. After reading this thread I am more confused about whether 190 proof grain alcohol is the best way to go about making this healing oil. And is it toxic or not? I am just a regular guy who was confused by the terms used above. To clear things up when using the word ethanol what is meant by ethanol? Is it the pure 200 proof ethanol that is toxic to humans? Or are the above posts referring to the toxicity of Everclear the 190 proof grain alcohol? Please help to clarify.
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#13 mediuseA

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

IMO grain alcohol is less toxic than naptha and other solvents...mankind has been consuming alcohol a long time and I am pretty sure the dangers are now well documented, known and reasonably low... Take a look @ Stoned Rangers No Nonsense method for one of the safest and easiest of ways to extract the cannabinoids into a usable form... muA
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#14 Graywolf

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:10 PM

Hey everybody
Just joined the site a couple months ago been reading a whole bunch on here since joining. It was interesting to read the "Ego Has Landed" thread. I have watched RS "Run From The Cure" a few times and I will agree it was a little bit confusing. After watching the documentary I had many questions and that is how I ended up on this site. Not a bad thing. Like I said I have been reading tons the past couple months so I am a bit confused. When I watched the documentary with my Dad who has not smoked cannabis since he was probably in Vietnam. The first thing he said was how poisonous Naptha is and how it's illegal in the U.S. I am not 100% sure if Naptha is illegal but I took my Dad's word that it was. That led me to having more questions about how to make this healing oil in the safest healthiest way. And whether or not I had to worry about blowing myself up making the oil with these chemicals. I couldn't help but think of Billy Bob in his trailer cooking up some Meth and the trailer exploding. It didn't make sense to me! Why use a possibly poisonous substance to treat or cure Cancer? That seemed to go against all I have learned about natural medicine. To knowingly put toxins into a human who is trying to get their body healthy to fight Cancer naturally seemed to contradict itself. And isn't there a way that I can do this without worrying about blowing myself up if I happened to make a dumb mistake?

I figured what the heck do I know? I told myself this Rick Simpson guy is well known and is curing Cancer so I guess it's a safe extraction method. I ended up calling someone who was associated with Phoenix Tears and ironically I was told about some of the negative things going on within the P.T./R.S. organization. This person directed me to this site and another. Which led to me reading the thread "Ego Has Landed" and I was horrified. The thread just solidified my view that human beings cannot handle power because inevitably the Ego and/or greed corrupts.

I wanted to reply to this thread in hopes of having some questions answered for myself and other newbies. After reading this thread I am more confused about whether 190 proof grain alcohol is the best way to go about making this healing oil. And is it toxic or not? I am just a regular guy who was confused by the terms used above. To clear things up when using the word ethanol what is meant by ethanol? Is it the pure 200 proof ethanol that is toxic to humans? Or are the above posts referring to the toxicity of Everclear the 190 proof grain alcohol? Please help to clarify.



190 proof ethanol is drinking liquor with less water in it. It will definitely stop your breathing if you drink too much, but any horror stories that you have heard beyond that are hyperbole. Certain at the parts per millionth that they might be left in an extraction it is ludicrious.

Breathing excess oxygen will also kill you, the poison is in the dosage.

200 proof just has more water taken out, which requires additional process steps that may make it unsuitable for oral consumption. It just depends on how they got rid of the rest of the water.

There is no good reason that I have found to worry about the extra 4.4% water content, when the plant material already has 10 to 15% in it.
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#15 ThiaBo

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:14 PM

I think the oil made ​​from grain alcohol is the cleanest, zero toxicity ...
evaporating correctly and adding a few drops of water at the end to soften the texture and to ensure that all the alcohol evaporated.

I'm more than a year using grain alcohol and the difference in the extraction may be that it has to leave the grass longer to dilute,
here I make four times by changing the alcohol to make sure that all extrail resin
I see that in the end nothing is left.

The Rick Simpson must have been wrong for putting some time in the alcohol and the extraction was not complete, he says that in three minutes as naphtha disolve ... grain alcohol in this time is short ...

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#16 Graywolf

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:16 AM

I think the oil made ​​from grain alcohol is the cleanest, zero toxicity ...
evaporating correctly and adding a few drops of water at the end to soften the texture and to ensure that all the alcohol evaporated.

I'm more than a year using grain alcohol and the difference in the extraction may be that it has to leave the grass longer to dilute,
here I make four times by changing the alcohol to make sure that all extrail resin
I see that in the end nothing is left.

The Rick Simpson must have been wrong for putting some time in the alcohol and the extraction was not complete, he says that in three minutes as naphtha disolve ... grain alcohol in this time is short ...

Posted Image


Three minutes most definitely won't extract all of the material, but by limiting each of my frozen ethanol soaks to three minutes, I can significantly reduce my chlorophyll pickup.

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#17 FreeSpirit

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

I was looking up Everclear and could'nt find this product in my country... but i found a solvent called bio ethanol 100% pure ethyl alcohol,made by the fermentation of sugar components and the starch of vegetable products - mainly sugarcane and crops such as cereals, with the usage of yeast. It is also made ​​from corn, potatoes, rice, beetroot, grapes and banana...I was wondering if it is the same as Everclear...

fs

Edited by FreeSpirit, 08 October 2012 - 10:01 AM.

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#18 mediuseA

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:10 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol no experience with it...but it reads as ok muA
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#19 FreeSpirit

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:18 AM

Do you think it would be hazardous for ones health using this product to make oil? or should i just stick to coconut oil?
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#20 mediuseA

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:55 AM

on th@ count you will have to wait for others with more knowledge than I to comment... muA
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#21 Papaw49

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:06 PM

Yes it is safe at the levels left at the end of the oil making process. Everclear is what grain alcohol is called here in the states. it varies by state what proof is avail as here in Calif it is 151 proof 75 % alcohol by volume while in Oregon it is 190 proof 95% alcohol by volume. I use it when making oil for my medicated caramel https://www.greenpas...icated-caramel/
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#22 FreeSpirit

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:39 AM

Thank you! just want to be sure i wont be causing more harm then good if a solvent as such is to be used...
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#23 Graywolf

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:21 AM

I was looking up Everclear and could'nt find this product in my country... but i found a solvent called bio ethanol 100% pure ethyl alcohol,made by the fermentation of sugar components and the starch of vegetable products - mainly sugarcane and crops such as cereals, with the usage of yeast. It is also made ​​from corn, potatoes, rice, beetroot, grapes and banana...I was wondering if it is the same as Everclear...

fs


To get from 95.6% to 100% requires extraordinary measures, and I would want to know more about how they did that. Sometimes they use a dryer like Benzene to accomplish that end.

It is not necessary to use more than a azeoptropic 95.6%, and is what I would recommend. The balance is water.
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#24 FreeSpirit

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

To get from 95.6% to 100% requires extraordinary measures, and I would want to know more about how they did that. Sometimes they use a dryer like Benzene to accomplish that end.

It is not necessary to use more than a azeoptropic 95.6%, and is what I would recommend. The balance is water.

I think i better continue using what i have already been using up till now...cause i am clueless of the above...
Thank you Graywolf
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#25 Drew3170

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:52 PM

To get from 95.6% to 100% requires extraordinary measures, and I would want to know more about how they did that. Sometimes they use a dryer like Benzene to accomplish that end.

It is not necessary to use more than a azeoptropic 95.6%, and is what I would recommend. The balance is water.

Hey Graywolf! I'm new to this forum but I have been reading lots of the threads and also your skunkpharmresearch. I am a little confused on a few things with ethanol extract. From your QWET with ethanol instructions, you state to heat extracted liqiud with an oil bath at 250F. Is there any danger in this because the ethanol's boiling point is lower. I know its not using an open flame but I want to be extra careful once I start using this method. Also, your directions state to keep at 250F til its fully purged of ethanol. So when do I know when to stop exactly so that I don't burn my oil? Would appreciate any tips and guidance! Thanks

Edited by Drew3170, 12 October 2012 - 01:52 PM.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ethyl, RSO, Grain alcohol, cannabis, Rick Simpson, extraction, techniques, testimonials, questions, discussion

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