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Iso Or Ethanol?

iso ethanol hemp oil

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#26 Lucky_Cat

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:33 PM

LMAO gray.. my head went after the first paragraph... who sells the ethanol peeps need? wallmart? amazon? is the ethanol on amazon here the right one? eay? few guides showing people what product they need to buy would be handy and from there on in its gets easier but trying to source this stuff for me and a few others is a bit of a head doer inner.. I found ethanol over here on amazon but am confused as to wether it is the right one or not and should imagine tink would have been on it if was the right one as the price for 5 litres is not that much different to the iso over here so I am guess its the wrong ethanol.. see I could taste a bit of iso first time round... only a tad.. but a tad too much would rather the safe ethanol option.. but where to get it here in the uk is difficult, few places I found just want silly money and guessing it cannot be that expensive over there or is it?
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#27 mediuseA

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:46 PM

lucky...try this then :D
http://opencart.home...turbo-air-still
http://opencart.home...ll-starter-pack
http://stillspirits....getting-started
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=afbvvCSxDTY


ignore the pricing....am sure ya can find better prices....but THIS would allow ya to make a pretty pure alcohol for extracting....and stops ya reliance on getting solvent or alcohol elsewhere :D
muA
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#28 Lucky_Cat

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:57 PM

LMAO medi good idea.. and spot on mucker tis the sourcing that is the headache.. now am remembering the last time I had a bit of the ol poteen... jeez was 2 decades ago... only da one glass mind ... mibbe ted can source us a few bottles?
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#29 Dudz

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:19 PM

Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol, the same kind of alcohol that is in booze) is available in liquor stores, and any other store that sells hard alcohol, here in the USA. It is generally labeled as brands "Everclear" or "Clear Springs". Both are 190 proof (95% ethyl alcohol + 5% water) and are typically not on the shelf - it's usually behind the counter. Some states have enacted their own laws that ban it, and you may not be able to find anything over 151 proof there.

There is also a higher proof available that is actually labeled straight up "Ethanol", but last I checked there is only one liquor store in my state (Oregon) that carries it. That store is a couple hundred miles away from me so I have never been there. :(

As far as I know, hard alcohol cannot be ordered online by consumers in the USA.


Ethanol/alcohol that was not bottled with the intent of being drank could be suspect to contamination with other chemicals and the entire contents should be researched before using it.

The link you provided is fuel and should probably not be ingested. I dug into it - here are the ingredients:
Ethanol B95: 95 % vol min., denatured with 1% of methyle ethyle ketone and 10 ppm denatonium benzoate.
Without knowing exactly what those other chemicals are and what they do to humans, I wouldn't suggest putting it into your body.
Here is the distributor's page on it:
http://www.kost-alco...d/biostuff.html

That same place also supplies nearly pure (as pure as it gets without a perfect vacuum) ethanol that would be ideal. I don't know what sort of licenses, if any, a person would need to be able order it though. They appear to be in the UK.
http://www.kost-alco.../prod/e510.html




Edit:
I checked out those ingredients.

Methyl Ethyle Ketone (aka MEK) is an industrial solvent which is under tight international government oversight because that's what they like to use to extract cocaine.

Denatonium Benzoate is the most bitter substance known to man. It is used to make things like that fuel into something that people won't try to drink. LOL

Edited by Dudz, 03 May 2012 - 04:51 PM.

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#30 PoeticLife

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:53 PM

Been watching and reading and gotta say am more confused than ever... had looked at the "laws" in my state. Supposedly you have to apply for a "special" permit thru the State Liquor Auth and on a specific form, say what it is being used for (meaning it can't be INGESTED). I have no idea what they are looking for on that question! So that would leave me with 2 options... iso (which is too toxic due to the potential ill effects... am ill enough rofl) or sticking to the NN#2 version... which I have made and can continue to make. I was just hoping that another type of oil would be more healing for my systemic immune diseases. Too complicated but that you all for putting up so much into... simple terms for me would basically be be writting point by point in "simple simple non techie terms" and I wouldn't put that anyone! I'll keep my eyes and ears open to more learning :) Hugs all around!
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#31 Graywolf

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:32 AM

190 proof ethanol is watched closely and restricted in some states because too many people were ingesting enough 190 proof alcohol to suffer respiratory arrest. 95.5% is the highest concentration of ethanol you can achieve by reflux distillation at atmospheric pressure. To get a higher percent requires distilling under vacuum or adding drying ingredients. I use the 190 proof from the liquor store. It works fine and I highly recommend it.
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#32 mediuseA

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

Thanks GrayWolf muA
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#33 Itinkso

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

LMAO gray.. my head went after the first paragraph...

who sells the ethanol peeps need? wallmart? amazon? is the ethanol on amazon here the right one? eay? few guides showing people what product they need to buy would be handy and from there on in its gets easier but trying to source this stuff for me and a few others is a bit of a head doer inner.. I found ethanol over here on amazon but am confused as to wether it is the right one or not and should imagine tink would have been on it if was the right one as the price for 5 litres is not that much different to the iso over here so I am guess its the wrong ethanol..

see I could taste a bit of iso first time round... only a tad.. but a tad too much would rather the safe ethanol option.. but where to get it here in the uk is difficult, few places I found just want silly money and guessing it cannot be that expensive over there or is it?


i'm sitting here trying to scource...once again...this is what i got...

Absinthe...89.90 ABV%....half litre is £46.95....WAAAAA!!!!... http://www.gerrys.uk...dCartOct07.aspx


ethanol company but you need a license for it ..20 litre minimum purchase.. http://www.ethanol.c...s/ethanol-96-bp


Alcool pure.... 94% ABV....£35.95 a litre..... http://www.beersofeu...__Vodka_87.html ....i managed to get this in italy and had it shipped over...cost me and arm and a leg and NO way could i afford it again...

Spirytus vodka 95% ABV ....£24.95 500 mls.... http://www.beersofeu....html#aSPVSM101


Spirytus is probably our UK equivalent of Everclear...but at these prices its EXTREMELY cost prohibitive...i usually use around 10 litres when i make oil putting my solvent costs somewhere in the region or £350...i simply physically CANNOT afford that....so iso it is for me...
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#34 Itinkso

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol, the same kind of alcohol that is in booze) is available in liquor stores, and any other store that sells hard alcohol, here in the USA. It is generally labeled as brands "Everclear" or "Clear Springs". Both are 190 proof (95% ethyl alcohol + 5% water) and are typically not on the shelf - it's usually behind the counter. Some states have enacted their own laws that ban it, and you may not be able to find anything over 151 proof there.

There is also a higher proof available that is actually labeled straight up "Ethanol", but last I checked there is only one liquor store in my state (Oregon) that carries it. That store is a couple hundred miles away from me so I have never been there. :(

As far as I know, hard alcohol cannot be ordered online by consumers in the USA.


Ethanol/alcohol that was not bottled with the intent of being drank could be suspect to contamination with other chemicals and the entire contents should be researched before using it.

The link you provided is fuel and should probably not be ingested. I dug into it - here are the ingredients:
Ethanol B95: 95 % vol min., denatured with 1% of methyle ethyle ketone and 10 ppm denatonium benzoate.
Without knowing exactly what those other chemicals are and what they do to humans, I wouldn't suggest putting it into your body.
Here is the distributor's page on it:
http://www.kost-alco...d/biostuff.html

That same place also supplies nearly pure (as pure as it gets without a perfect vacuum) ethanol that would be ideal. I don't know what sort of licenses, if any, a person would need to be able order it though. They appear to be in the UK.
http://www.kost-alco.../prod/e510.html




Edit:
I checked out those ingredients.

Methyl Ethyle Ketone (aka MEK) is an industrial solvent which is under tight international government oversight because that's what they like to use to extract cocaine.

Denatonium Benzoate is the most bitter substance known to man. It is used to make things like that fuel into something that people won't try to drink. LOL


the link dudz is for a UK company but the products are made in germany and they are NOT allowed to import ethanol 510 into the UK without an HMRC license ...i called an asked!!.... GAAAAsmiley.gif
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#35 bongbonghi

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:10 PM

Hey tink I can get 4 750 ml bottles of everclear from a store in New Jersey it would cost ya a little less than $55.00 U.S. so if you check out the shipping costs (from there should be about the same as here) and it's not to crazy I can get it and send it if ya want.Just a thought hope it helps...bongi
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#36 Itinkso

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:16 PM

Hey tink I can get 4 750 ml bottles of everclear from a store in New Jersey it would cost ya a little less than $55.00 U.S. so if you check out the shipping costs (from there should be about the same as here) and it's not to crazy I can get it and send it if ya want.Just a thought hope it helps...bongi


gie's an hour til i do the math...lol...thanks bongi...am REALLy doing the math!!
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#37 Itinkso

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:55 AM

Hey tink I can get 4 750 ml bottles of everclear from a store in New Jersey it would cost ya a little less than $55.00 U.S. so if you check out the shipping costs (from there should be about the same as here) and it's not to crazy I can get it and send it if ya want.Just a thought hope it helps...bongi


right...have checked out the USPS site....

ffs its the most complicated postal system on the planet you guys have....i am guessing its going to cost around 50 bucks to send 4 bottles over here....i'd need 15 each round of oil....thats 165 bucks for the everclear then approx 200 ish for the postage ...then all the customs froms need sorted too....that much everclear won't be easy to explain away....so i'm 365 bucks all in which is approx 300 quid?....can't do it....tooooooooo expensive...just do not have that kind of money!!.....


so....sticking with me iso for now til my gov stop robbing us blind left right and feking centre!!...if ever...


PS...soz about the length of the hour i was meant to take...i got stonded!!
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#38 mediuseA

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:53 PM

tink...chase up a good price on the benchtop still...over here one can get base unit about $265 au and a full kit [with gear to do a few brews] for $400 au...lemme know if ya want links... Making ya own double distilled should give tou a 60% or greater solution. muA
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#39 bongbonghi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

Sorry tink it was just a thought I hope ya get a cheep source soon.And I know what ya mean our gov is filled with asshats too...bongi
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#40 Itinkso

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

Sorry tink it was just a thought I hope ya get a cheep source soon.And I know what ya mean our gov is filled with asshats too...bongi


eh don't be sorry sweets it was SUPER kind of you to offer...your a wee star!!!! glowstar.gif
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#41 Lucky_Cat

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:44 PM

for me.. making oil is a piece of cake.. same as driving a car... dont have to klnow wagwan under da bonnet,, just trun that key and vroom vroom... lets take the oil back a little.. our cots were coated with lead paint ffs.. important thing for me is getting as many people making their own oil asap and fair play to Stoned Ranger, he showed us all how to make oil in a non copmplicated easy to understand language.. why is this stage of the oil making which is dead easy to do made out to be some sort of rocket science because it isnt... like a bike.. once you do it innit. fabo offer bonghi and fair oplay to ya... ethanol wise we are screwed here in the UK but hey ho we got iso and it works and its easily obtainable..

Edited by Lucky_Cat, 05 May 2012 - 03:45 PM.

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#42 Graywolf

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:03 AM

Why is this stage of the oil making which is dead easy to do made out to be some sort of rocket science because it isnt... like a bike.. once you do it innit.


Things are more complicated here brother cat, where we use multiple extraction means to achieve different ends. None are rocket science, but there is more to it than just turning a key.

You make a good point though. It is all good, so folks who don't understand, nor want to understand the nuances of oil extraction, should stick to a method that they do understand.
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#43 co2xtractr

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

by far for many reasons, ethanol is the better solvent of choice. its way more selective especially the anhydrous 200 proof-100% moonshine. the iso has been denatured rendering it unfit for human consumption, and water has been added to it. that water messes up the extract w green color and it dissolves more trash making it more unpleasant to smoke. i dare you type of extract vs extract thats pleasant to smoke.

Things are more complicated here brother cat, where we use multiple extraction means to achieve different ends. None are rocket science, but there is more to it than just turning a key.

You make a good point though. It is all good, so folks who don't understand, nor want to understand the nuances of oil extraction, should stick to a method that they do understand.

lol. gray you speak many truths. preach on!!

#44 co2xtractr

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:15 PM

for me.. making oil is a piece of cake.. same as driving a car... dont have to klnow wagwan under da bonnet,, just trun that key and vroom vroom... lets take the oil back a little.. our cots were coated with lead paint ffs.. important thing for me is getting as many people making their own oil asap and fair play to Stoned Ranger, he showed us all how to make oil in a non copmplicated easy to understand language.. why is this stage of the oil making which is dead easy to do made out to be some sort of rocket science because it isnt... like a bike.. once you do it innit.

fabo offer bonghi and fair oplay to ya... ethanol wise we are screwed here in the UK but hey ho we got iso and it works and its easily obtainable..

have you ever dabbed iso oil? that stuffs nasty and harsh. the perfect example of I dare you type of smoke. i stay away from iso unless im so broke i cant afford any other co-solvent, then its a last resort and dare ya!!

#45 mediuseA

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:17 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol http://en.wikipedia....opropyl_alcohol doing a lil reading on this...one difference between them is ethanol is a brewed/fermented product and iso is a chemically derived product... muA
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#46 co2xtractr

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:21 PM

190 proof ethanol is watched closely and restricted in some states because too many people were ingesting enough 190 proof alcohol to suffer respiratory arrest.

95.5% is the highest concentration of ethanol you can achieve by reflux distillation at atmospheric pressure. To get a higher percent requires distilling under vacuum or adding drying ingredients.

I use the 190 proof from the liquor store. It works fine and I highly recommend it.

Ive used 194 proof and really wish to have access to 200 proof lab grade stuff undenatured. the 6% water is giving undesired results when the water concentration becomes greater as the alcohol boils off.

#47 Itinkso

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:46 AM

have you ever dabbed iso oil? that stuffs nasty and harsh. the perfect example of I dare you type of smoke. i stay away from iso unless im so broke i cant afford any other co-solvent, then its a last resort and dare ya!!


i don't think anyone on this forum makes oil to smoke....i've smoked my iso oil ONCE and yes you are right...ewwww.....major coughing fit but since most peeps here are making the oil to treat medical conditions and smoking wastes so much of itss goodness then dabbing it and smoking isn't really an issue!!!
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#48 Graywolf

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:34 AM

have you ever dabbed iso oil? that stuffs nasty and harsh. the perfect example of I dare you type of smoke. i stay away from iso unless im so broke i cant afford any other co-solvent, then its a last resort and dare ya!!



Good point! I don't recommend smoking any oil, or bud either, for that matter. It produces carcinogenic pyrolysis byproducts from the terpenes, just like smoking tobacco. I recommend vaporizing either instead.

Cannabis Essential Oil is a bronchial dilator and an expectorant when vaporized and inhaled however. If you take a deep hit, expect to cough, regardless of any extraction method I've tried thus far, or taking a hit from a Volcano using bud, as far as that goes.

A good reason not to take deep hits, especially given that they aren't required unless you are clearing your lungs.

For instance, the first thing I do in the morning, is use BHO Absolute Amber in a vaporizer and clear out the congestion from my COPD. It breaks it up and gets under it, so that I can expel it. Asthma is in fact one of the qualifying conditions for medical cannabis in Oregon.

Us'n skunk pharmers present hands on extraction classes and at the end of the class the students taste all of the extracts that we've made in class. The students without exception rated the QWISO as very tasty, because of the floral undertones.

They rated the QWET only slightly higher for taste, and fresh frozen BHO extraction best of all, calling it "fresh" tasting.

Extractions of dried material using Butane were rated tasty, but dead last in floral undertones, as they were more hashy in flavor.

They were also the smoothest on the lungs to vaporize, as some of the terpenes providing the floral undertones are also harsh on the lungs.

Hexane provides a smooth hashy extract as well, but also lacks the level of floral undertones achieved with a polar solvent.

If you are saying that Cannabis Essential Oils extracted by SFE CO2 produces no coughing, then I would say you have found your market niche and should base your marketing strategy on that tremendous selling point.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof, so I might suggest you start your campaign with videos of smiling groups inhaling your product deeply with impunity.
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#49 Graywolf

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:56 AM

Ive used 194 proof and really wish to have access to 200 proof lab grade stuff undenatured. the 6% water is giving undesired results when the water concentration becomes greater as the alcohol boils off.



Ummm, 194 proof would be closer to 97% purity, leaving only 3% water.

I avoid 200 proof like the plague, unless I know specifically how it was made. Some of the processes use a drying agent like benzene to remove the remaining water. It is not recommended for human consumption.

It is too bad that 3% water presents such a serious problem for your process, but might I note it is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pen when it comes to extracting cannabis oil from plant matter.

For instance, unless your plant material is bone dry and for all practical purposes too frangible to handle, the alcohol immediately absorbs that water, unless you have tied the water up by other means. That is a bunch more than 3%.

When we do a QWET extraction and purge the 190 proof ethanol using thin film vacuum techniques, the last thing left behind with the oil, is the water. That is because the azeotropic balance goes away in a vacuum, and the alcohol is again evaporated off at a faster rate than the water.

Sort of a moot point, because it disappears moments later too, leaving behind a pristine product.

The same with heat purging and decarboxylation.

Perhaps you should consider a different process, that you can use azeotropic 190 proof ethanol, because it is less likely to have evil spirits in it.


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#50 co2xtractr

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:50 PM

I'm uncertain of water percentage, but 190 proof has still a big 4.5% water portion to it. when I take into consideration the use of polar or non-polar solvents, and have seen their amplified versions w co2 as the amplifier. isobutane is the next best to 200 proof lab grade ethanol. partly because its anhydrous it doesnt leach water solubles in to the extract. so the next best economical solution is electronic cleaner that is n-hexanes and ethanol, is there a way for me in california to get some of these products easily if at all, kinda like the propane w out mercs, just isnt available here. so alot of outside the box thinking is required for best results.





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