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Why Should I Not Use Miracle-Gro Potting Mix?


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#51 HD96

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:04 PM

I have used Miracle-Gro potting mix simply for the fact that it is cheaper to use then some of the brands like FoxFarms. I have seen a lot of people on the forums speaking against using Miracle-Gro, but they never state why. Is it all that bad? I just picked up seven 55-quart bags at Costco marked down to $7 (US$) each. Costco clears summer things out to make room for their Christmas items, so you can always pick up some bargains this time of year.

I would like to hear opinions to why you think Miracle-Gro is so bad for growing mj? Since I have not done that many grows myself and have always used Miracle-Gro, I do not have anything to compare it to. I would love to hear your opinions and experience with it.


I used mg. for my first ak48 grow and was very happy with the results,on my second grow of the same strain i used happy frog and increased my weight by about a half oz. per plant..
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#52 sandbreak

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:29 AM

The Mulch and Soil Council (from the US, I think) has a list of potting soils that they certify as "premium potting soils" - and guess what all is on it... :)

http://www.mulchands...ion/premium.php

I found the link at the Mandala Seeds site: http://www.mandalase...ides/Soil-Guide

Edited by sandbreak, 18 September 2011 - 01:30 AM.

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#53 OniusOniusOnius

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 09:00 AM

sandbreak
The Mulch and Soil Council (from the US, I think) has a list of potting soils that they certify as "premium potting soils" - and guess what all is on it... :)

http://www.mulchands...ion/premium.php

I found the link at the Mandala Seeds site: http://www.mandalase...ides/Soil-Guide


Certification from this group only means that the company's product labeling is accurate... not that it is a safe product to use on things you're going to burn and inhale. In fact, their website says in bold letters,
"... MSC CANNOT AND DOES NOT GUARANTEE, WARRANT, ENDORSE, OR OTHERWISE MAKE REPRESENTATIONS WITH REGARD TO ANY PRODUCT’S SAFETY..."

This is what the website has to say about their certification process,
"For Consumers: certification means that label claims for packaged products for non-commercial use are reviewed and verified by generally accepted industry criteria or independent research testing and what is ON the bag is what is IN the bag."

the second link had this to say, "Avoid products that have:

"Extended release" or "controlled release" fertilizer..."

The Mandala site also says to avoid BioBizz's Light Mix, which is perfectly good soil, you simply need to feed it with liquid ferts.

Edited by OniusOniusOnius, 18 September 2011 - 09:03 AM.

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#54 Transcendence

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 03:13 PM

Well put Onius~ Lets face we want kick arse plants and try to get the best end product.... So its just a learning curve, start out with good genetics, good soil & p.h. properly. And you will have a great time! PeAcE!
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#55 sandbreak

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:31 PM

My 1st grow is at the end of flowering now and I am seeing a bit of the NPK deficiency that has been mentioned in earlier posts. I haven't done anything in the way of additives, since all of my plants are so very close to the chop date... but I am planning to use a different soil next time.

Now to figure out what it will be, and what nutes I'll use - gah! I'm a stealth grower, so the smell of ferts, soil and plants has to be as low as possible. (Carbon filter or no carbon filter. :)) I also need things to be simple.

Suggestions welcome - please feel free to PM.

Edited by sandbreak, 13 October 2011 - 09:32 PM.

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#56 sandbreak

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 01:36 PM

Quick update: I have an Afghan Kush Ryder seedling in a Solo cup with MG soil; no evidence of any burn... seedling is very healthy. I have to wonder if the ruderalis crosses will grow in conditions that would hurt many photoperiod strains - ? But... I will be transplanting into another soil (not M-G). You folks talked me into it. rasta.nana.gif
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#57 canon

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:29 AM

Quick update: I have an Afghan Kush Ryder seedling in a Solo cup with MG soil; no evidence of any burn... seedling is very healthy. I have to wonder if the ruderalis crosses will grow in conditions that would hurt many photoperiod strains - ?

But... I will be transplanting into another soil (not M-G). You folks talked me into it. :Where Dreams are:


I been using MG Moisture Controll for awhile and love it. But, I don't grow "organic" either.
I bake all and flush before use. Use it for germinating, cloning, and all the way thru on photoperiods & Autos.
Took a bit of learning how to work with it, but feel it's worth it because of cost and availability.
Hydro Stores are not quite what I consider "strealth" when LEO sits across the street. Home Depot, Walmart, much more under the radar. Plus it's cheap.
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#58 sandbreak

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:47 PM

I been using MG Moisture Controll for awhile and love it. But, I don't grow "organic" either.
I bake all and flush before use. Use it for germinating, cloning, and all the way thru on photoperiods & Autos.
Took a bit of learning how to work with it, but feel it's worth it because of cost and availability.
Hydro Stores are not quite what I consider "strealth" when LEO sits across the street. Home Depot, Walmart, much more under the radar. Plus it's cheap.

So... what do you do with MG to make it work for you?

I'm really interested in learning.... and for me, its easy availability is a help. (No hydro stores here, so I am not taking a risk that way.)

Edited by sandbreak, 27 October 2011 - 12:48 PM.

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#59 canon

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:14 PM

So... what do you do with MG to make it work for you?

I'm really interested in learning.... and for me, its easy availability is a help. (No hydro stores here, so I am not taking a risk that way.)


Basicly,, I bake it in the oven at 250 - 275F for 1/2 - 3/4 hr. and let cool slowly. That'll kill most anything including the micro herd (remember, I'm not organic). Also kills gnat eggs and other creapy crawly eggs too. try and do a "batch" at a time and fill / seal 3+ 5 gal. buckets at a time.
I do this with my used MG also and miz 50 / 50 with new for use.

To that I'll add 3 cups perlite to a near 5 gal. pail. mixing it in good.

From there, it goes to use.
If for seed / clone I'll "flush" it first in the cup of use.
If up-potting,, I flush it after the transplant.
(Flush = 3-4 times the pot volume of water run through)

After the flush (even clones, etc.) I'll add the nutes of choice to the mix with a final flush (to chase out the flat / nuteless water. (I do use peroxide in almost all final waters)

All the nutes I'm using at present are Jack's Classics Duo and some Epsom salt mix.
screw the directions of mix... I've got heavy(ier) feeders and generally go 1 Tablespoon per gal. (or there abouts).

I like things simple. :Where Dreams are:

Example of a Haze Autoflower per above

Attached Files


Edited by canon, 27 October 2011 - 01:18 PM.

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#60 sandbreak

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:33 PM

canon - nice! and many thanks for the info. and pic. I hate to pitch all my used soil... Aren't you concerned about the chemicals in the mix going airborne while you've got the MG in the oven, though?

Edited by sandbreak, 27 October 2011 - 01:34 PM.

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#61 canon

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:14 PM

canon - nice!

and many thanks for the info. and pic. I hate to pitch all my used soil...

Aren't you concerned about the chemicals in the mix going airborne while you've got the MG in the oven, though?


Nope, plenty wet enough so the temp of the medium never goes over boiling (like a double boiler). All that comes off is steam. (Steam cooked bugs & lava & such. Oh, my! :Where Dreams are: )
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#62 canon

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:27 PM

Alrighty,,, Basicly my soil is treated like a simple moisture holding medium. My grow style is a slow, manual, flood & drain system, with chemical nutes. (Kind of hydro in nature?) Perhaps that'll help you picture what I'm doing some? It really is K.I.S.S. (Keep It Stoner Simple!) Being in control,, I never concern myself (anymore) with PH, maintaining a active micro herd, smells, bugs, all pretty much a thing of the past. I get nothing by parking in front of a (here I am officer) hydro shop. Just because I have a card, it doesn't mean I trust politics. Low profile is still the way to last.
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#63 sandbreak

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:07 PM

I totally get the whole keep it simple thing, also low profile. But there are different ways to achieve both, of course... right now, I'm thinking more on the organic side, though not too much. Just enough that my plant(s) can be healthy and grow well. I absolutely refuse to spend lots of money on fancy soil mixes and nutes and whatnot. Besides all that, I have very limited space and need to learn to make the best of what I've got without expecting to get the kinds of harvests that people with high-powered lights and lots of space will get. That's partly due to circumstances (a need for stealth) and partly due to the fact that I don't need much... though enough for making tinctures, etc. would be very good. So... I'm wanting to use the whole plant, not just the buds. (Am also wanting to create a tabletop vegetable garden, and my ideas there are pretty much the same, minus the need for stealth.)

Edited by sandbreak, 27 October 2011 - 03:09 PM.

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#64 alienseeker

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:07 PM

I am always open to new ideas and if someone can get good results from using MG then I can only say thumbs up my friend. I had used MG in my last two grows with mixed results, but I feel I could have done better. I am now using Fox Farms Ocean Forrest mix and my plants seem to love it. While the FF is more pricy then the MG, it is not all that much more than one would think. I think that the FF only cost me about 1/3 more as much as the MG, which is not all that much more depending on how many plants and what pot sizes you are using. But if you calculate in the added growth and yield then I don’t think the price difference can even be much of a factor. I have gone through the veg stage and today my plants are being switched over to the 12/12 cycle. While I have always found the vegging part of growing to be the easy stage of growing, and my plants have vegged beautifully using the FFOF, the real test and challenge, now to come, is in the flowering stage. Then of course I have learned a ton of lessons here besides what soil mix to use to help improve my grow. While it may be too early to say just how big of factor the FF mix has played into my healthy new grow, I am still feeling very confident that the FF is a big factor in the way my plants are now growing in comparison to when I was using MG.
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#65 canon

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:40 PM

There's a lot of good soil & soilless mixes out there. I'm the last to ever say my way is the only way. Just what's working for me. I doubt if what I do would work well for everyone. Just way too many variables to contend with. Soil is simply part of a whole system. Get what works for you and stick with it enough to know it inside & out,, I'd bet most any soil will do when you learn how to work it. Also think most folks have good sound reasoning why they do what they do. It's all good. Like blonds & redheads. Whatever suites your fancy. :Where Dreams are:
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#66 alienseeker

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

There's a lot of good soil & soilless mixes out there.
I'm the last to ever say my way is the only way. Just what's working for me.
I doubt if what I do would work well for everyone. Just way too many variables to contend with.
Soil is simply part of a whole system. Get what works for you and stick with it enough to know it inside & out,, I'd bet most any soil will do when you learn how to work it.
Also think most folks have good sound reasoning why they do what they do.
It's all good. Like blonds & redheads. Whatever suites your fancy. :Where Dreams are:


I agree, FF is only one of many good soil mixes out there. I wanted to do something cheaper by mixing my own soil mix, but I also have too many other irons in the fire right now to have to experiment, so I thought that I would just use something that has been tried and tested by many growing mj. I am also sure once you have worked with something for a while, like MG, that it is best for you because you already know its weak points without having to take time out to experiment with something new. But I think MG has too much of a learning cure for most since it contains an unknown amount of nutes which makes it hard to control, whereas FF is totally organic which makes it very forgiving in its use.

Thanks Canon for the post. I am sure it will help many who are using MG to be able to use it more efficiently!
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#67 itsfourtwozero

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:06 PM

This product is made by Scotts. That is enough reason not to use it IMO, especially when human consumption is involved.

Scotts is not the kind of company I want to work with, or trust, when growing grass for my lawn or grass for my medicine.





http://www.safelawns...awn-fertilizer/

Scotts Pledges to Remove Phosphorus From Lawn Fertilizer
Tue, Mar 22, 2011

The Move is Eyed Suspiciously by Organic Fertilizer Companies

After arguing for much of the past two decades that lawn fertilizer had little to do with excess phosphorus in the watershed, the Scotts Miracle-Gro company announced Monday it will succumb to increasing public pressure and remove phosphorus from all its U.S. lawn fertilizers by 2012.

Miracle-Gro founder Horace Hagedorn lived by the marketing credo that “public perception is reality,” and his son, Jim, could clearly see the writing on the wall. With legislation calling for phosphorus limits either already enacted or pending in at least a dozen states, the growing perception was that phosphorus in lawn fertilizers was ruining bodies of fresh water.

Jim Hagedorn, now chairman, chief executive officer and the leading shareholder of the company with $3.3 billion in annual sales, told media outlets today that he deliberately chose to make the announcement on World Water Day — so that his company is painted as a good friend of the planet.

“What better time to announce these initiatives than on World Water Day, and also at the start of another lawn and garden season,” Hagedorn said in a statement.

In other words, the company wants to create the perception that it has consumers’ best interests at heart — just as those consumers head out to spend their spring dollars.

Scotts also trotted out warm and fuzzy statements from all sorts of environmentalists who applauded the move. Joel Brammeier, president and chief executive officer of the Alliance for the Great Lakes, said,
“Today’s choices by Scotts Miracle-Gro are a smart commitment to putting business to work for clean water.”

The National Wildlife Federation, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, and the Keep America Beautiful campaign were also quoted on the Scotts web site, including KAB President and CEO Matt McKenna chiming: “We have seen repeatedly throughout our more than 40-year history that education is one of the most effective approaches to protecting the environment. Storm water education programs have been gaining popularity throughout the U.S. Given our strong network of more than 600 local affiliate organizations, we are proud that we’ll be able to bring ScottsMiracle-Gro’s commitment to education to communities across the country.”

All those affiliate organizations represent a lot of potential Scotts customers who might not have thought kindly of the company in the past.

THE BIG BUT . . .

As you might guess, if you’ve read this far, the organic community is eyeing this move by Scotts with a huge level of skepticism. We’ve all sat through testimony from red-faced Scotts representatives who stated emphatically that the phosphorus in lawn fertilizer wasn’t responsible for water degradation — that the real cause was stuff like tree leaves, goose poop, pollen and soil erosion. Taking phosphorus out of lawn fertilizers, argued Scotts, will weaken lawns, make them less lush, and therefore cause even more soil erosion into the watershed.

“There are a number of sources that affect the amount or phosphorus in our waterways,” said Chris Wible, the “sustainability director” for Scott Miracle-Gro said in a published report just last December.
“There isn’t an overuse of fertilizers in urban environments . . . Dense ground cover (i.e. healthy turfgrass) is good for the urban environment. It reduces sediment flows and lateral flows, increases filtration and aids in groundwater recharge.”

Given that Scotts was arguing so strongly against the phosphorus bands so recently, you have to wonder what has made them change their strategies and tactics. Many organic fertilizer manufacturers fear that Scotts’ end game in this move is to put organic fertilizers out of business — since phosphorus can’t readily be removed from organic fertilizer sources such as chicken manure, alfalfa, fish meal and other supplies.

I was on the phone with a national reporter today and when I tried to explain that organic phosphorus sources were not as prone to leaching as synthetic phosphorus, he clearly didn’t get it. He didn’t even want to hear it. I’m certain the average consumer feels the same way.

The average shopper — who will now be educated by the Keep America Beautiful program and other new Scotts partners that phosphorus in lawn fertilizer is bad — will look at the 2 percent phosphorus in Milorganite, Espoma and other organic products and likely conclude that they should buy Scotts Turfbuilder instead. That product, it should be noted, includes 32 percent nitrogen — about three times more than should be in the bag — but zero phosphorus.

For now, at least, Scotts is keeping phosphorus in its starter fertilizers and organic products. Both of those moves make sense, both from an agronomic and functional standpoint.

When push comes to shove, though, the company would likely sacrifice all of its organic fertilizer sales in a heartbeat if it meant it could put all of its pesky organic competitors out of business in the process.

Like his Daddy, Jim Hagedorn has his own business mantra: “Business is war.” Today, despite all outward appearances, you can be certain that this move was nothing more than another shot aimed at winning that war.



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#68 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:08 PM

The thing about all this is you can get straight sphagnum peat and pelletized dolomite lime at any big box garden center. Just wet the peat really well first to make it easier to work with and mix a quarter cup of dolomite per gallon of peat and your set, no need to worry about your young plants getting burnt and if your really want to make the effort you can fake up a pretty decent super soil from Homedepot.
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#69 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:22 PM

The thing about all this is you can get straight sphagnum peat and pelletized dolomite lime at any big box garden center. Just wet the peat really well first to make it easier to work with and mix a quarter cup of dolomite per gallon of peat and your set, no need to worry about your young plants getting burnt and if your really want to make the effort you can fake up a pretty decent super soil from Homedepot.



I fully agree with KD , its very easy to do and simply cheap as well , much cheaper than buying MG fert capsules of uncertainty or a organic mix of garbage .. Often a 3.5 cf bail of Spagnum peat moss can be purchased for under $10.00 american currency . The lime is very cheap , especially if one buys prilled or fine from a farm supply .. Average there is under $5 for 50 lb bags . Then theres perlite , I know some who buy construction grade and fair very well , I buy mine for $20.00 4 cf and when I mix this I add a simple dishsoap as a surfacant to the water used during the mixing .

This all together is simple promix minus the vermiculite , so if one skips that and adds a few other ammendments for nutrients its still way cheaper than MG as stated above .. I add some mycorhizea to the peat , perlite and dolomite and average about $13 for a homemade bail of promix bx .. One can make bags of MG for much less than imagined if the ammendments are also bought in bulk ..

This is what I did for years and now I used promix for 5 months and have added lime and still find issues that I never had with my own made version ..

I have to make some of this homemade promix tomm and I will try to make a journal of it ..

Edited by ProffesorPotSnob, 27 October 2011 - 08:28 PM.

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#70 sandbreak

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:02 PM

You're all making .good points, though I have to admit that it's kind of hard to store bigger bags of stuff (a la Home Depot or feed store-size) if you live in an apartment, compared to those who have houses, garden sheds or garages and all that jazz. I'd really like to try mixing my own soil, but I'm not sure I have the space (or patience) to go into big-time organic gardening. That said - PPS, I'm looking forward to your journal! Great idea; should be of help to lots of folks.

Edited by sandbreak, 27 October 2011 - 09:03 PM.

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#71 sandbreak

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:00 AM

Last week I picked up some of the soil mix that's featured in this video... though there isn't as much info. on the bag as I would like, and the site doesn't offer much enlightenment... I figure it's worth a shot.

Edited by sandbreak, 28 October 2011 - 03:01 AM.

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#72 canon

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 05:59 AM

Hmmmm,,
Question was,,, "Why Should I Not Use Miracle-Gro Potting Mix?".

Think the basic answer is,, No real reason not to if you want.
It's what you do with it that counts. (for whatever reason)
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#73 Turf

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:47 AM

good call Canon!

i think that was the point...peeps problems with MG is their own lack of reading directions on the bag.

its a fine soil if you understand what it is and how to use it.Posted Image
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#74 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:32 AM

good call Canon!

i think that was the point...peeps problems with MG is their own lack of reading directions on the bag.

its a fine soil if you understand what it is and how to use it.Posted Image


Read the instructions? What an interesting concept! :)
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#75 420friendly

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 01:09 PM

PLAIN AND SIMPLE.....The most important thing to remember is that MG has Fertilizers and slow release nutrients... IT HAS EVERYTHING AND MORE of what the plant needs for at least 3 mos. and it forces ALL plants to Flower earlier and it will fade and die..... so you the consumer are forced to go back to the store and by more plants to make your dying garden look good !! For these reasons MG was not meant to be used in the growing Cannabis even with Fox Farm you must remember NOT to double Fertilize!! *If you must use MG...then flush with water for at least 2 days to insure you start with clean soil! GOOD LUCK....:D **Facts comes from UN-named source who worked @ MG :D **P.S. WEED KILLER HAS A GROWTH HORMONE IN IT...SO....THAT THE WEEDS COME BACK...SO... YOU COME BACK AND BUY MORE!!:D
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