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Why Should I Not Use Miracle-Gro Potting Mix?


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#26 buck

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:36 PM

I use MG with very good results. Its a learning curve like any new soil .Seeds for cuttings go in a hockey puck type peat thing, then in soil. I'm in no hurry so the first month I don't over water or fertilize- Next month Light Fertilizer. Next month bloom and lighten/ less the fertilizer. Flush the last 2 waterings. One trick I learned with MG is to have big enough pots so you don't go root bound.
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#27 sandbreak

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:46 PM

One trick I learned with MG is to have big enough pots so you don't go root bound.


What you're saying is very much what I seem to be seeing, though I don't know for sure that my Plant #3 (in a plastic flowerpot) is root bound, compared to the plants I've got in AirPots... though I suspect that might be the case. otoh, it was the "slowest" seedling out of the gate. (My 3 plants look like they had staggered germination times and were put into soil that way, too, but I think it might be that one is showing more sativa traits and that the other two are more on the indica pheno side, being shorter and starting to get bushier...)

Also, am wondering what strains you've grown in MG?

Edited by sandbreak, 13 September 2011 - 02:48 PM.

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#28 chow

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

for what it's worth... ...i used MG-organic this round for my potted, outdoor grow. i added a bit of perlite, but not enough. this MG-organic just wanted to hold water forever...which got me some nice little fungus gnats flying around. i would recommend at least a 1/2 or 1/1 perlite/soil mix. also, come flowering time, the mix seemed to run low on NPK for my chemdawgXsourdeisel plant. the kush's were cruising along, but the cXsd seemed to want more nutes that what was in there, which always frightens me because i really don't know what's "in there" to begin with. i supplemented with some used coffee grounds and some molasses to keep the "organicness" of my grow. i definitely will not be using MG for any future cannabis grows. ...i've confirmed my feelings of pre-nuted soils. Attached File  DSC_0112.JPG   237.43KB   10 downloads chow
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#29 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:57 PM

Another reason to not use any MG products .. Monsanto ..Dont support them or there junk ... It should be said that its the worst of dirt period .. Better of using cheap top soils and amending them yourself .. It will be much cleaner as well ,. Anyone who has used Mg soils knows that there is literally garbage in every bag lol ... Peace
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#30 sandbreak

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:10 PM

Miracle-Gro is owned by Scotts, not Monsanto... (not that I want to get into a discussion of Monsanto; just trying to keep things accurate here.)

http://en.wikipedia....cle-Gro_Company

best,
s.

Edited by sandbreak, 13 September 2011 - 03:11 PM.

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#31 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:21 PM

Miracle-Gro is owned by Scotts, not Monsanto... (not that I want to get into a discussion of Monsanto; just trying to keep things accurate here.)

http://en.wikipedia....cle-Gro_Company

best,
s.



And who ownes Scotts hehehe Guess who ? Monsanto thats who !!!

Edited by ProffesorPotSnob, 13 September 2011 - 03:24 PM.

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#32 sandbreak

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:37 PM

as far as I can tell, they don't, though they seem to be "sharing" some tech. What that's all about, I'll leave for another thread. rotflmaogif cheers, s.

Edited by sandbreak, 13 September 2011 - 03:37 PM.

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#33 alienseeker

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:00 PM

as far as I can tell, they don't, though they seem to be "sharing" some tech.

What that's all about, I'll leave for another thread. :woohoo:

cheers,
s.


This also got me wondering since Monsanto is not a company I want to support in any way, so I thought I would check this out myself. To me Monsanto is nothing short of an evil corporation trying to gain control of the world's seed supply with no concern for the safety of society. They are right in line with the tobacco companies who are just interested in profit at any and all expense to the human health. Monsanto is a good example of human beings who have no conscience who are able to gain power over what is good within us and use that power to corrupt governments and destroy life and to never suffer a feeling of conscience for their actions.

Source from Wikipedia @: http://en.wikipedia....cle-Gro_Company

Mergers and acquisitions

  • 1995: Scotts merged with Sterns Miracle-Gro Products, Inc. Horace Hagedorn (1916–2005) and his partner Otto Stern founded the Miracle-Gro organization in 1951, with the slogan "you don't have to be an expert to create a beautiful garden."[3]
  • 1999: Scotts acquires the Ortho and Roundup brand from Monsanto Chevron.
  • 2002: Scotts LawnService acquires The Lawn Company, a major lawn care service company in the Boston area.[4]
  • 2002: Scotts LawnService acquires substantially all of the lawn care operations of Centex HomeTeam Services, a division of Centex Corporation.[5]
  • 2004: Scotts acquires Smith & Hawken, Ltd., a brand in the outdoor living and garden lifestyle category.[6]
  • 2005: Scotts acquires the Rod McLellan Company, a provider of soil and landscape products in the western U.S.[7]
  • 2005: Scotts acquires Gutwein & Co. Inc., whose Morning Song brand is a part of the growing wild bird food category.[8]
  • 2006: Scotts acquires certain brands and assets from Turf-Seed, Inc., a producer of commercial turfgrasses for more than 35 years.
  • 2006: Scotts acquires certain brands and assets from Landmark Seed Company, a producer and distributor of professional seed and turfgrasses.

Note: The above states "Scotts acquires the Ortho and Roundup brand from Monsanto Chevron". It does not say that Scotts is owned by Monsanto, but that Scotts acquired the Ortho and Roundup brand from Monsanto.
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#34 sandbreak

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:42 AM

alien, I came across that yesterday, too... At this point, those companies are owned by Scott's. I do have to wonder what's meant by Scotts and Monsanto "sharing" tech... There certainly are a lot of people looking for definite ties between the two corporations.
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#35 CoNtRoVeRsIaL

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:26 PM

I personaly would LOVE to use Fox Farm all the way through,
But the closest place that sells it is 2 to 3 hours away,
(Just found out that Hidhut has it)

My 2 cents and experience on Miracle grow is ..
while it may not be 'ideal' for MJ , it WILL work,when used with caution.

My first Indoor Grow (Linked in My Sig.) was hit with small amounts of miracel grow,maybe 5 times total from veg to flower.
The current one i have going now have been hit with small amounts of MG,

My seedlings sprung up no problem,ive had no burns,or nute lock, or roots balling up,
Im growing in the same buckets i used on the 55 Gallon Barrel of Blueberry Grow (in my sig)
Theres a couple pics of my roots in there to,

So my advice is if u can afford it,and get ur hands on it,then u should use FoxFarm
But if u cant get ur hands on it and tired of waiting to grow , then use your MG , but use it with EXTREME caution.

MAKE SURE YOU FLUSH ! !
I flush atleast 2-3 weeks before letting her sit in dark period,before chopping.

Edited by CoNtRoVeRsIaL, 15 September 2011 - 06:21 PM.

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#36 sandbreak

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:36 PM

As far as getting Fox Farm - or any other "fancy" soils here - it all has to be shipped. There are no indoor gardening/hyrdro supply places within 250 miles of here. Which leaves me with some pretty basic options, and one of them (like it or not) is MG. Oh well. :hungryplant:
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#37 alienseeker

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:52 PM

As far as getting Fox Farm - or any other "fancy" soils here - it all has to be shipped. There are no indoor gardening/hyrdro supply places within 250 miles of here.

Which leaves me with some pretty basic options, and one of them (like it or not) is MG.

Oh well. :hungryplant:


I was pretty satisfied with my first grow, which was all MG, and I did not have any problems what-so-ever. The problems all begin after we learn a little something of what we're doing, which started in my last grow. Maybe if I could do it all over again I would just stay dumb as a rock and watch those colas rock-out. However, I Just kidding since learning is a big part of the all the fun in everything. It is like the first time poker player who wins most of the pots. Not a clue to what he/she is doing accept that they know they are making a killing and grinning all the way to the bank. “Ignorance is bliss”!
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#38 sandbreak

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 12:13 AM

Good comparison, alienseeker! There's one other reason i grabbed Miracle-Gro from the shelf at K Mart: I have had serious trouble keeping houseplants alive for years. Never had grown anything from seed, except for science projects when I was a kid. I figured my seeds needed all the help they could get. :P
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#39 alienseeker

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 12:56 AM

Good comparison, alienseeker!

There's one other reason i grabbed Miracle-Gro from the shelf at K Mart: I have had serious trouble keeping houseplants alive for years. Never had grown anything from seed, except for science projects when I was a kid.

I figured my seeds needed all the help they could get. :P


Don't sweat it Sandbreak! Use what you have and what you can afford. I am sure that MG is not all the total evil of all potting mixes that some would lead you to believe. Everyone has made good points about it here based on educated know how, but not necessarily based on firsthand experience. I also know that a lot of people, including myself, have used it with reasonable success. Once you know its weak points then you are more easily able to work with it. Like I said, if that is what you have, or just what you can afford right now, then use it and learn from it, which I have and continue to do at the movement. I often wonder about those who are in fear of making any mistakes along the road of learning, because in a slow race the person who makes the most mistakes are the ones who win the race by learning more from their mistakes. In other words it would be like reading a book on adventure but never really getting out there and living the adventure.
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#40 DEBhasgrn

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 01:32 AM

I was pretty satisfied with my first grow, which was all MG, and I did not have any problems what-so-ever. The problems all begin after we learn a little something of what we're doing, which started in my last grow. Maybe if I could do it all over again I would just stay dumb as a rock and watch those colas rock-out. However, I Just kidding since learning is a big part of the all the fun in everything. It is like the first time poker player who wins most of the pots. Not a clue to what he/she is doing accept that they know they are making a killing and grinning all the way to the bank. “Ignorance is bliss”!


I used to use mg and had some pretty nice outside plants, For some reason, even way back, I some how new my weed could be a smoother smoke and taste better maybe, if I was to go more organic.. But what to do when mg is all that is sold from miles maybe states away.. When joining GP and listened to all that was said about mg, I refused to use their soil anymore, nutes too.. Didn't know what I was going to do, I started using organic seedling starter soil for my seedlings, then what to do... I had no other way but to get some more of the organic seedling starter and mix a bit of perlite in with it, Then used FF nutes, I would order small amounts on line..

It used to be so very frustrating that every were I looked, every corner I turned there it was, the dreaded mg, I was so pissed off at the mg company taking everything over, I was too stubborn to give them any kind of business,,, Two years ago I was never so happy as to see an Urban organic garden center open up close enough to be happy to take the few extra miles to get what I want for soil and nutes,, I have had great results with FF....
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#41 sandbreak

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 03:49 AM

Deb, I have a feeling that MG is all-pervasive now because it's owned by Scotts (the lawn/grass seed company). So all the retail outlets that used to get different varieties of potting soil are - I'm guessing - probably getting a good wholesale price for Scotts products. * alienseeker, thanks! What I figured is this: if I tried super-hard to make everything perfect for my 1st grow (soil, nutes and all), I'd never have started growing. Much easier to go to the store, grab a bag or two of MG soil and get down to it. There's always a next time, after all. :P

Edited by sandbreak, 16 September 2011 - 09:46 PM.

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#42 Guest_SomeDude_*

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:33 AM

MG is just very, very cheap chemical fertilizer. Ferts like fox farms are organic (RTFL). Just mix up some good soil and be done with the nutes. I have some fox farms nutes and a 1 quart bottle (about 15-20$) lasts me well over one year. The 1lb containers of cha-ching and open sesame last me almost 2 years (about $40/lb now). IMHO, there is no need to get heavy on nutes unless you prefer doing massive flushes, smoking your nutes (throat ever burn bad when ya take a toke? that's phosphorous), having shitty tasting cannabis and in general wasting a bunch of money that most people aren't in an excess of currently. my 0.02.. peas stoners.. :P

#43 Turf

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:38 AM

read your labels!

cha ching and open sesame are over priced fox farm chem nutes,,,,,,same as miracle grow (just not as high priced)

Open Sesame® Soluble Fertilizer (5-45-19)
Early Flowering Formula for Gardeners and Hydroponic Growers


Cha Ching® Soluble Fertilizer (9-50-10)
Late Flowering Formula for Gardeners and Hydroponic Growers
Encourages Essential Oils and Succulent Fruit







the word "soluble" should give you a clue its not organic!


(rtfl)


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#44 Turf

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:47 AM

"peace of mind" and "happy frog" are fox farm organic brands the rest of fox farm's line are over priced chem nutes. fwiw
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#45 Methusela

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:01 AM

It used to be so very frustrating that every were I looked, every corner I turned there it was, the dreaded mg, I was so pissed off at the mg company taking everything over, I was too stubborn to give them any kind of business,,, Two years ago I was never so happy as to see an Urban organic garden center open up close enough to be happy to take the few extra miles to get what I want for soil and nutes,, I have had great results with FF....


That's great, DEB. I tend to be like you: I would do anything to get exactly what I need (that would be organic and nothing else). Hopefully, there's going to be more and more of those urban organic gardens opening when they realize that there are so many of us out there looking for organic products.
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#46 guestpatient

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:55 AM

"peace of mind" and "happy frog" are fox farm organic brands

the rest of fox farm's line are over priced chem nutes.

fwiw


To be fair, "Big Bloom" is also on that list of "organic" (not OMRI certified) products from FF

And also to be fair....'water soluble" can include both organic and chem ferts. (some WS organics are here)
http://www.groworgan...fertilizer.html

The real tip...99.9% of the time that it isn't earth-based/organic is the COLOR of the fert.

Basically, If it looks like one of the colors of the rainbow...it probably ISN'T organic. If the NPK numbers are high...it probably isn't "organic".

and if it isn't OMRI certified in the US...it may not be fully "organic" or the company may not follow strict enough standards to qualify for organic certification. On the whole lookin for OMRI certified products or raw/base materials like guano and worm castings and allofthe various "mined' products that come from the Earth will keep you in the "organic" zone.

Happy harvests, GPer's!



#47 OniusOniusOnius

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 01:43 AM

keep in mind that cannabis is VERY VERY good at picking up heavy metals and larger than normal molecules. So much so, in fact, that hemp was planted all around Chernobyl to absorb the radioactive elements from the soil with great success. This means that using products with heavy science or made up words or terms like "Osmocote" & "MicroMax" can be dangerous. Cannabis will absorb those products and you will smoke them... into your lungs... I don't know about you, but I'll just stick to MaryJane's resin and leave Scott's resin coated nutes at the store. The chemical names of the resins used to slowly release the nutrients in MG are not listed in the MSDS & the MSDS for MG with "MicroMax" says, "toxic fumes and gases may be generated" by the soil. So there you have it.
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#48 alienseeker

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 02:58 AM

keep in mind that cannabis is VERY VERY good at picking up heavy metals and larger than normal molecules. So much so, in fact, that hemp was planted all around Chernobyl to absorb the radioactive elements from the soil with great success. This means that using products with heavy science or made up words or terms like "Osmocote" & "MicroMax" can be dangerous. Cannabis will absorb those products and you will smoke them... into your lungs... I don't know about you, but I'll just stick to MaryJane's resin and leave Scott's resin coated nutes at the store. The chemical names of the resins used to slowly release the nutrients in MG are not listed in the MSDS & the MSDS for MG with "MicroMax" says, "toxic fumes and gases may be generated" by the soil. So there you have it.


Thanks Onius! That’s an excellent piece of information my friend!
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#49 Turf

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:27 AM

hey onius!

have you had your garden soil tested for heavy metals??

heavy metals are naturally occurring in all soils.

the state of Ohio uses 18 ppm with a range from 9 -39 ppm for naturally occurring lead. http://ohioline.osu....75/rc275_3.html

the state of washington uses 17 ppm as their background Lead level (naturally occuring).http://cru.cahe.wsu....1884/eb1884.pdf

due to the paint, fuel; and pesticides used prior to the 1980's there is a lot of heavy metal soil contamination out there. urban soils have about 3 times the level of contamination as rural soils. so if you are in a city, chances are your garden soil are triple these numbers.


miracle gro clearly publishes their levels of lead at 21ppm. http://agr.wa.gov/Pe...aspx?pname=2881

whats the number in your garden?

i think most people will find that the MG with micromax has less heavy metal than the soil in their backyard garden.


in fact -
where issues arise with heavy metals and fertilizers, they are in the natural fish based ones. it seems those little fishes are swimming in a soup of heavy metals. so if you want to warn peeps about heavy metals feeds...well those are the culprits!

good luck!
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#50 OniusOniusOnius

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 10:29 AM

My point was about cannabis being able to pick up large things in general, not just heavy metals. I'm not worried about the heavy metals in MG, I'm worried about the "extra" ingredients besides the regular metals (heavy or light) found in normal soil. But you do bring up the greatest concern for organic listed fert products: in order to be listed as "organic" companies cannot filter even harmful or radioactive elements from them. Microbiology will help filter these harmful components from soil. This is another reason gardeners (especially organic) need to flush. If a harmful component of a soil is readily available for absorption into a plant, than it is very likely soluble enough to be easily flushed from the soil. Slow release chemicals like those found in MG, by definition, persist in your soil and are released in a soluble form regardless of flushing.
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