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Bho Extraction And Recovery


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#26 Luc

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:42 PM

Hi Medi

Just Google "side can tap" , they are about $16 delivered on ebay.

Luc

GW...th@ can tapper you use...I cannot find one...could you perhaps post a link?
muA


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#27 Luc

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:38 PM

Hi Greywolf I rotated and annotated your Butane Recycle drawing, so it is more self explanatory for layman like me. If I got anything wrong I can change it. Luc

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#28 Graywolf

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:05 PM

Thanks Luc! Looks good! You might add CPS VP-6D under the vacuum pump. The schematic isn't quite right, in that I since removed the two check valves and replaced them with full port ball valves to speed up the process.
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#29 Luc

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 05:05 PM

Hi Greywolf

Made changes to schematic. Thanks

Have you thought of using Tri-clamps on your next column like on the Tamisium? A filter basket may be handy for quick change of material.

Luc

Thanks Luc!

Looks good! You might add CPS VP-6D under the vacuum pump.

The schematic isn't quite right, in that I since removed the two check valves and replaced them with full port ball valves to speed up the process.

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#30 Nicholas

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:36 PM

Wow thanks Luc! This setup is brilliant. I've always been rather trepidatious to dive into the world of BHO for obvious reasons, but a contained recyclant system like this is quite fascinating... and seems relatively safe when operated/designed by a mindful individual!
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#31 Graywolf

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:56 PM

Hi Greywolf

Made changes to schematic. Thanks

Have you thought of using Tri-clamps on your next column like on the Tamisium? A filter basket may be handy for quick change of material.

Luc


Thanks for the schematic updates!

Yes we have considered Tri-Clamps and are in fact planning to use them on our next system. At the pressures we operate at they should work well.

Good idea on the filter basket for speeding up loading and unloading the columns!

We currently use a battery powered hand drill with a 72" flexible shafted self feeding bit on the end to clear our 48" column and a dowel with a coat hanger cork screw taped to it to clear the 12 and 24".

After vacuum recovery, the remaining duff is powder dry at that point, with 20% or so of its original volume removed in the form of oil, so it is easy to remove.

A conical bottom hopper, with about a 1 1/2" discharge, would also speed up loading. Right now we just cut the top out of a juice jug and use as a funnel, along with a dowel as a ramrod.

Our latest thinking for speeding the system up without losing the capacity to run small discrete columns, is a manifold with multiple columns and recovery pots Tri-Clamped on it.

They would share the vacuum and recovery systems, as well as a common butane storage and recovery tank.
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#32 Luc

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:15 PM

Hi Greywolf

Any updates on the video yet?

What pressures are used on the BHO Extraction and Recovery system? I know you pull 29.9"Hg vacuum on the system, what is the max pressure on any one part of the system? What is the max rating on the recovery tank with the Y valve?

On eBay I saw 1/2" Brass Solenoid Valve NPT Gas Water 110-120 VAC http://www.ebay.com/...=item19c6075d54 would these work on your system? They are $33 shipped.

I can't afford to build one of these now, but I will try to scrounge the needed parts. Maybe I can find a G-5 in need of repair for cheap at a garage sale or on Craigslist. ;-)

Thanks, Luc

I picked up an HD camera and we actually did a video of this process and are refining it for presentation. More on that later.

Cost is under $1500, though I spent about $2000 building and sorting it out. The two pumps together are around $1000. My first refrigerant recovery pump was not suitable and required replacing.


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#33 Graywolf

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:48 AM

Hi Greywolf

Any updates on the video yet?

What pressures are used on the BHO Extraction and Recovery system? I know you pull 29.9"Hg vacuum on the system, what is the max pressure on any one part of the system? What is the max rating on the recovery tank with the Y valve?

On eBay I saw 1/2" Brass Solenoid Valve NPT Gas Water 110-120 VAC http://www.ebay.com/...=item19c6075d54 would these work on your system? They are $33 shipped.

I can't afford to build one of these now, but I will try to scrounge the needed parts. Maybe I can find a G-5 in need of repair for cheap at a garage sale or on Craigslist. ;-)

Thanks, Luc


Sorry, the only progress I have made on the videos that we took so far, is to purchase and install the video editing program, which I am having to learn to use.

The system pressures typically run from -29.9"Hg, to 30 psi positive pressure. I don't remember what it is rated for, but will check on the recovery tank the next time I am at the pharm. My guess is around 150 psi, but for sure it is more than adequate for the application. The weak link in my existing system, is the pressure pot, which is rated at only 80 psi.

The valves should be explosion proof, in case something goes wrong, and capable of operating under both pressure and vacuum. Most water valves don't operate under vacuum.

There are oil less recovery pumps besides the G5 that will also work, but something to consider, is that I have also developed a couple of passive designs, that function using hot and cold water baths, similar to the Tamisium.

One is all stainless and the other is a combination of stainless and Borosilicate, so that you can watch what is going on in the column and in the recovery tank.

Both hold only around an ounce and the all stainless one should be relatively inexpensive to build out of Schedule 5, 304 SS pipe, with no expensive recovery pump required.

I am also designing a second generation pumped BHO extraction and reclaim system, starting with a clean sheet of paper, rather than what was available for free from my junk collection. I will post that shortly also!

Edited by Graywolf, 09 November 2011 - 08:51 AM.

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#34 mediuseA

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:51 AM

<_< hehehe... re read this again and loved it even more! muhahaha

graywolf...I googled the type of steel column you're using...and came acrossthis pdf link...

My question is, I think I see mention of it's availability in widths up to 48"

AK Steel produces Type 304 Stainless
Steel in thicknesses from 0.01" to 0.25"
(0.025 to 6.35 mm) max. and widths up
to 48" (1219 mm).


so..perhaps considering this...why not go for a very wide column but very short?...3"x6"dia or 4"x8"dia?




This would allow MUCH easier packing of the column or insertion of a holding netpot?

Does the column HAVE to be thin and long?




muA
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#35 Luc

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:06 PM

Hi Greywolf

I don't know if those eBay Solenoid Valves are explosion proof or if they will work under vacuum, but the price is right.

I would like to see your passive designs, especially the Borosilicate version. An ounce at a time is not a problem for personal use. It would be nice to watch it in action.

Is Stainless absolutely necessary, can copper, brass, or galvanized pipe work?

Can't wait to see the next generation pumped BHO extraction and reclaim system. This is educational and fun!

Luc

The valves should be explosion proof, in case something goes wrong, and capable of operating under both pressure and vacuum. Most water valves don't operate under vacuum.

There are oil less recovery pumps besides the G5 that will also work, but something to consider, is that I have also developed a couple of passive designs, that function using hot and cold water baths, similar to the Tamisium.

One is all stainless and the other is a combination of stainless and Borosilicate, so that you can watch what is going on in the column and in the recovery tank.

Both hold only around an ounce and the all stainless one should be relatively inexpensive to build out of Schedule 5, 304 SS pipe, with no expensive recovery pump required.

I am also designing a second generation pumped BHO extraction and reclaim system, starting with a clean sheet of paper, rather than what was available for free from my junk collection. I will post that shortly also!


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#36 Graywolf

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:02 AM

Hi Greywolf

I don't know if those eBay Solenoid Valves are explosion proof or if they will work under vacuum, but the price is right.

I would like to see your passive designs, especially the Borosilicate version. An ounce at a time is not a problem for personal use. It would be nice to watch it in action.

Is Stainless absolutely necessary, can copper, brass, or galvanized pipe work?

Can't wait to see the next generation pumped BHO extraction and reclaim system. This is educational and fun!

Luc



Here is the conceptual design of the visible passive extraction vessel. The rest of the set up is just a butane tank and a hose.

Copper or brass would work, but with copper you would have to keep it oxide free. I would stay away from zinc galvanized materials.

Edited by Graywolf, 10 November 2011 - 09:06 AM.

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#37 Graywolf

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:10 AM

Looks like I lied. I can't get the drawing to post at 1.13 MB. The thread also rejected my last edit. If 1.13 is too big for the GP system, and you will send me a safe e-mail address, I will send you a copy.
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#38 Graywolf

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:16 AM

Here it is reduced. Sorry for the scale.

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Edited by Graywolf, 10 November 2011 - 09:17 AM.

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#39 Graywolf

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:30 AM

Here is a copy of the latest process diagram for the original system.

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#40 xxPeacePipexx

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:08 PM

Right on Greywolf , I am going to slowly begin to collect all needed to build this dream come true .. Great Karma my friend ....Infinite wisdom you hold I sense ... PPS
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#41 jangel

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

Graywolf, anything you cannot get to "stick" on gp you are welcome to send to me at jangel@greenpassion.org. Goes for any one that is having issues...will be pleased to help. I will also look into raising your limit for size for uploading to the site....you add so much I hate to have you have issues with this. Thank you for all you do. Peace
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#42 eloquentsolution

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 06:11 PM

Right on Greywolf , I am going to slowly begin to collect all needed to build this dream come true .. Great Karma my friend ....Infinite wisdom you hold I sense ... PPS


you might hold on purchasing everything. this is only round two of design phase. it has been submitted to a few for bids and is seeing a redesign due to cost and efficiency. of course the basics will be the same.

i have been using the butane recycling system for a few months and have field tested a number of adjustments to improve efficiency. skunk pharm research is lucky to have such a brilliant process engineer as graywolf. given a little more time and these designs will have prototypes tested, adjusted and running in full efficiency.
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#43 Graywolf

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:27 AM

Easy to stay motivated with such enthusiasim. Thanks for the good thoughts ES and for shaking the system out in practical production! Good point as well! As I review the incoming bids and ongoing upgrades to the original test sled, I have been tweaking things. A significant improvement, was removing the heat cable from the lower pot and wrapping the column with it, while adding a Wyott commercial 12" electric soup pot, as a hot water bath to set the collection tank in. That dropped the time between floodings and flushings, to about 2 minutes and cut the time to pull down to 29.9" Hg on the last cycle, in about half.
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#44 Jackster

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 10:54 AM

Thanks for the schematic updates!

Yes we have considered Tri-Clamps and are in fact planning to use them on our next system. At the pressures we operate at they should work well.

Good idea on the filter basket for speeding up loading and unloading the columns!

We currently use a battery powered hand drill with a 72" flexible shafted self feeding bit on the end to clear our 48" column and a dowel with a coat hanger cork screw taped to it to clear the 12 and 24".

After vacuum recovery, the remaining duff is powder dry at that point, with 20% or so of its original volume removed in the form of oil, so it is easy to remove.

A conical bottom hopper, with about a 1 1/2" discharge, would also speed up loading. Right now we just cut the top out of a juice jug and use as a funnel, along with a dowel as a ramrod.

Our latest thinking for speeding the system up without losing the capacity to run small discrete columns, is a manifold with multiple columns and recovery pots Tri-Clamped on it.

They would share the vacuum and recovery systems, as well as a common butane storage and recovery tank.


Amazing work. I have the larger Tamisium unit (over priced and slow) and am not able to keep up with access point needs here in Seattle. Have been considering converting it to something similar to your set up. I have followed your posts for some time and believe that many of the machined parts are readily available as commercial off the shelf (cots). The brewing industry uses similar parts. Look at the Brewery Hardware site for quick connect clamping systems. Also look at Rubber Fab for a super cool sight gauge that is big enough to use as a extraction column. AND is fitted with a tri clamp flange AND uses gaskets with built in filter screens AND comes in stock lengths of 8", 12", 18", 24" AND diameters of 3mm to 4". These babies cover all the bases. Do not know the cost but it may be worth checking out.

http://www.rubberfab...ight.Gauges.pdf
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#45 eloquentsolution

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:37 PM

Amazing work. I have the larger Tamisium unit (over priced and slow) and am not able to keep up with access point needs here in Seattle. Have been considering converting it to something similar to your set up. I have followed your posts for some time and believe that many of the machined parts are readily available as commercial off the shelf (cots). The brewing industry uses similar parts. Look at the Brewery Hardware site for quick connect clamping systems. Also look at Rubber Fab for a super cool sight gauge that is big enough to use as a extraction column. AND is fitted with a tri clamp flange AND uses gaskets with built in filter screens AND comes in stock lengths of 8", 12", 18", 24" AND diameters of 3mm to 4". These babies cover all the bases. Do not know the cost but it may be worth checking out.

http://www.rubberfab...ight.Gauges.pdf


ty, for the info, review and link. will check it out.
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#46 Graywolf

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 07:01 PM

Amazing work. I have the larger Tamisium unit (over priced and slow) and am not able to keep up with access point needs here in Seattle. Have been considering converting it to something similar to your set up. I have followed your posts for some time and believe that many of the machined parts are readily available as commercial off the shelf (cots). The brewing industry uses similar parts. Look at the Brewery Hardware site for quick connect clamping systems. Also look at Rubber Fab for a super cool sight gauge that is big enough to use as a extraction column. AND is fitted with a tri clamp flange AND uses gaskets with built in filter screens AND comes in stock lengths of 8", 12", 18", 24" AND diameters of 3mm to 4". These babies cover all the bases. Do not know the cost but it may be worth checking out.

http://www.rubberfab...ight.Gauges.pdf


Thanks I will bro! The columns on our generation two butane extractions sytem uses 1 1/2" X 24" stainless triclamp couplings and plumbed end flanges from the brewing industry, but our local store is limited in stocks of more exotic pieces to build with. www.lesker.com is a vacuum piping supplier, and has lots of pieces for building your own.
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#47 Jackster

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

There is a brewery supply company in Portland OR call Glacier Tanks that sells off the shelf "spools" in 6", 12", 18", and 24". These come in various diameters and are fitted with tri clamp flanges. Very reasonable pricing. I have started a build closely based on your design. A key element is to keep everything as modular as possible using quick disconnects (tri clamps, etc for all connections. I have been considering using 2" columns as opposed to the 1 1/2" in order to keep the overall profile shorter. Is sizing the columns a critical design element or is did you just happen to have 1 1/2" stock on hand?
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#48 Graywolf

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:15 AM

There is a brewery supply company in Portland OR call Glacier Tanks that sells off the shelf "spools" in 6", 12", 18", and 24". These come in various diameters and are fitted with tri clamp flanges. Very reasonable pricing.

I have started a build closely based on your design. A key element is to keep everything as modular as possible using quick disconnects (tri clamps, etc for all connections. I have been considering using 2" columns as opposed to the 1 1/2" in order to keep the overall profile shorter. Is sizing the columns a critical design element or is did you just happen to have 1 1/2" stock on hand?




Good idea!

I just happened to have 1 1/4" 304SS pipe sitting around, which is the source of most of my columns, but picked up our (3) 1 1/2" x 24" columns from Glacier Tanks on Airport Way. I had the same idea that you did and am considering their on hand stock, but some of the larger diameter pieces are not in stock and an order of 50 is required for him to order from his supplier.

I'm now looking at using some of their parts, as well as Kurt J Lesker company for parts, and a local inert gas piping fabrication shop for what they don't have.
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#49 Jackster

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:48 AM

I am pulling a final BOM this week because I will be in Portland at the end of the week and over the weekend and will be doing some shopping at Glacier Tank. I have acquired most of the big stuff - refrigerant tank, vacuum pump, and refrigerant recovery machine. i also acquired a lab convection oven at an auction this weekend. It will hold a temp within a few tenths of a degree. Should be perfect for decarboxilating. I also have a lab bath that will holds the water temp + - 1 degree. It works great with the Tamisium Tank. I have another question related to column sizing - Is the tank volume ratio to column volume a critical factor?. I am planning to re-purpose my Tamisium Tank. However, it is less than 1 gallon in volume. The paint pressure pot you are using is considerably larger. Do I need a larger collection tank? Is using an aluminum pressure tank for collection a problem? I have a 4 gallon al pressure tank on hand. Brewers Hardware has similar inventory as Glacier Tank. Not as broad of a product line but they do have some unique configurations.
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#50 Graywolf

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:54 AM

I am pulling a final BOM this week because I will be in Portland at the end of the week and over the weekend and will be doing some shopping at Glacier Tank. I have acquired most of the big stuff - refrigerant tank, vacuum pump, and refrigerant recovery machine. i also acquired a lab convection oven at an auction this weekend. It will hold a temp within a few tenths of a degree. Should be perfect for decarboxilating. I also have a lab bath that will holds the water temp + - 1 degree. It works great with the Tamisium Tank.

I have another question related to column sizing - Is the tank volume ratio to column volume a critical factor?. I am planning to re-purpose my Tamisium Tank. However, it is less than 1 gallon in volume. The paint pressure pot you are using is considerably larger. Do I need a larger collection tank? Is using an aluminum pressure tank for collection a problem? I have a 4 gallon al pressure tank on hand.

Brewers Hardware has similar inventory as Glacier Tank. Not as broad of a product line but they do have some unique configurations.



I picked the larger tank for the high surface area to depth ratio, for the greatest speed. We've run it with up to a 48" column with no issues, but haven't run one since we fine tuned the system using the 24" column.

A full column dump from our 1 1/4" X 24" column, only puts a half inch of butane in the 10" diameter pot, which boils off under heat and vacuum in about a minute and a half.

The 2.5 gallon pot that we use, doesn't have to be as deep as it is, but it is what was available that provided easy access for removing the material without using a solvent, if we so choose.

There is violent butane bubbling under vacuum and heat, so you want your vacuum intake either far enough away to not aspirate those popping bubbles, or guarded against them, and I run a filter dryer in front of the refrigeration pump, to protect it from aspirating cannabis oil and seizing up the pump.

Aluminum is actually rated excellent for butane and turpenes.

I have stuck to stainless and avoided using aluminum for no reason than its unknown relationship to Alzheimer's. It is found at high levels in Alzheimer victims brains and it isn't known if it causes it or is the result of the disease.

Thanks for the heads up on Brewer's Hardware! I'll check them out.
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