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Chlorophyll Poisoning From Concentrates


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#1 Graywolf

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:26 PM

Hi ya'll! On prevous threads I have talked about minimizing chlorophyll, which flies in the face of the salubriousness of chlorophyll. Since the subject involves the welfare of our patients, I offer the following in support of my statement that in my own experience too much chlorophyll gave the patients digestive tract upsets. Let me also change the subject from chlorophyll, to chlorophyll poisoning from chlorophyll extract (concentrate.) In doing so, let me appologize for not being more specific in expressing my concerns and failing to use the words "Extract or Concentrate." I am not talking about chlorophyll in general, but chlorophyll extract. I've attached a chlorophyll extract MSDS to this thread, which gives the official version. Poison is always in the dosage! The same digitalis that will save your life, will stop you heart at a higher dosage. Oxygen is pernicious to human life at greater than 75% of atmosphere. The symptoms of chlorophyll poisoning are •Diarrhea •Loose bowel movements (stools) •Stomach cramps If your extracted extracts give your patients those symptoms, consider reducing the chlorophyll in your meds. More is not always better! Googling Chlorophyll concentrate MSDS and Chlorophyll poisoning will give additional unbiased input. Hugz ya'll!

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#2 Bueller

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:31 PM

Excellent resource and data GW. Thank you! Pete
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#3 mediuse

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:06 PM

Thanks, GW.. Will peruse as soon as I get  the chance :toking:

Working on a concept for a reflux chiller constructible by anyman...or anywoman... :D

Got a neighbor who might be able to help me knock sommat up hehehehe ...will post the concept in the ThinkTank thread.

Use and production of medicine from this plant is advancing all the time thanks to Peeps like yourself...thank you :)

As we come to know more, I would not be suprised if it was determined chlorophyll was not good for certain illnesses, whilst helpful in others.

muA
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#4 Guest_k~spirits_*

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:27 PM

Hi GW! Thank you for sharing this info. and your concern.:toking: It is often hard to imagine greens causing any serious problem; yet, I know of two women making the most of their gardens last year, putting fresh spinach in their green smoothies, twice a day. They were both very excited about the readily available fresh and organic spinach and the new health regimen they had set up for themselves. It was not long before they each feeling ill and were suffering a toxic overload of iron. I have no idea if this might be an issue with the extracts you are referring to; however, it is an example of too much of an otherwise (generally safe and) healthy "green food." Manufacturers of green powders (barley greens, wheat grass, others) usually have people start out slowly on very low amounts and also have a suggested cap on the daily amount of intake. They most often clearly suggest people slowly build GI (and systemic detoxification) tolerance as they increase the intake of the amount of greens. Again, I have not a clue if iron intake is an issue with this extract. This discussion had brought this story to mind. Moderation is key in most things. Lol. An open-minded discussion is often helpful to all everyone. :D Thanks again for sharing this info. and your concerns about patient welfare!:)

Edited by k~spirits, 28 October 2010 - 01:28 PM.


#5 jangel

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:56 PM

Thank you so much Graywolf. You have expressed concern over this before and we have many saying it is good for us...but so are many things, if not taken to extremes.

I have water cured before extracting for oil, and this has worked well.

I have also read of people boiling herb for aprox 20 min before drying and then extracting for oil. This removes waxes as well, or rather should I say "seperates" these waxes, and makes them stick to the side of the pot.

And there is also a fast wash or soak in cold water, again, then drying before extracting for oil.

I have also read the Chlorophyll is not water soluble. This makes me think it can be separated from the herb though, for a purer extraction. It can be very confusing.

What would you suggest?
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#6 envind

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 04:02 PM

Grey Wolf, Thank you for this post. It is actually a chance to talk to you that inspired me to jump over and start an identity here, I found an old post of yours where you collected solvents from canning jars, tubing, and a mixing bowl of ice. Brilliant. We had a member post a few days ago she has had discomfort for 6 weeks on Oil treatments, continuously. I find every time I make a batch, I expose myself to so much of it (I don't use gloves to work) that I am off for a few days. When I have the pics ready to post, I will bring them over here, too, but we are doing a side by side comparison of the extraction: 1 using a "boil-cure" method, the other simply toasting or "carboxing" (is this the right word?), then both will process Reflux with ISO. Thank you for this info, it is a great help.
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#7 Graywolf

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 04:06 PM

I have also read the Chlorophyll is not water soluble. What would you suggest?


Actually chlorophyll is water soluble and therein lays the rub. The alcohol and water are also soluble in each other so you end up with the water solubles if you don’t take steps to avoid them.

As far as what I suggest, I am no expert and I guess I have already voted with my feet. I extract all my orals using either QWET or BHO.

I use QWISO and QWME for topicals. Reflux leaves too much material behind on the skin. I’ve posted the QWET process, but not yet the BHO.

I started out using reflux, but have since ceased with raw plant material, because of the extra material it takes out and patient issues.

I still use reflux to extract oil from hash and kief, because there is not much of an issue with them.

I have had some success removing the inert ingredients after a reflux extraction, but a lot of weight is lost in the process and I get a slightly better yield just avoiding them in the first place.

If you reduce the reflux extraction down to a manageable volume and mix it with equal parts of hexane and saturated salt water, after agitation it will separate into distinct layers when placed in a separatory funnel.

The hexane will be on top with the cannabinoids and the alcohol and water on bottom with the unwanted materials.

If you bleed off the undesirables and evaporate off the hexane, it will be relatively clean. If you then re-dissolve that in ethanol and then cook that off to fully purge the hexane, you end up with a relatively clean fine tasting oil.

Edited by Graywolf, 28 October 2010 - 04:06 PM.

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#8 Graywolf

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 07:04 PM

Uhmmmmmmm,may I also say that I supplied a lot of reflux extracted tincture for pain patients that didn't present a problem, because they weren't taking heavy doses. It is all about concentration and dosage.
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#9 eloquentsolution

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 07:28 PM

Grey Wolf,
Thank you for this post. It is actually a chance to talk to you that inspired me to jump over and start an identity here, I found an old post of yours where you collected solvents from canning jars, tubing, and a mixing bowl of ice. Brilliant.

We had a member post a few days ago she has had discomfort for 6 weeks on Oil treatments, continuously. I find every time I make a batch, I expose myself to so much of it (I don't use gloves to work) that I am off for a few days.
When I have the pics ready to post, I will bring them over here, too, but we are doing a side by side comparison of the extraction: 1 using a "boil-cure" method, the other simply toasting or "carboxing" (is this the right word?), then both will process Reflux with ISO.

Thank you for this info, it is a great help.


i do reflux because of the sedative qualities in meds that have been refluxed. it is my sleep med, but it is not the only med i take. cleanup is necessary if using refluxed for topical, which i do. next topical will be even further processed.

nice thread, GW!
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#10 jangel

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 07:39 PM

Thank you so much for all this wisdom floating around the place! Wonderful to here you folks talking like this...it is true gold. Peace
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#11 ThaiBuddhaMan

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 11:22 PM

Lots of good info! Thanks for sharing!
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#12 Graywolf

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:38 AM

i do reflux because of the sedative qualities in meds that have been refluxed. it is my sleep med, but it is not the only med i take. cleanup is necessary if using refluxed for topical, which i do. next topical will be even further processed.

nice thread, GW!


As ES notes, refluxed meds are more sedative! I'm guessing because of the lower THC and higher CBN.

It is also hands down the fastest way to extract everything from kief or hash and produces a delightful floral product.

I've also found that the second extraction using QWET or BHO is less speedy and more sedative than the first.

If I dry sieve off 10% of the kief before extracting the oil from the plant material, it has a similar effect.

It is all good and all different and they all have their place. Hee, hee, hee......

My central point in the case of reflux extractions is that you are concentrating everything that you extract, including the chlorophyll, so taking mega doses to combat disease A, may create digestive tract upsets.

Rick Simpson, used quick wash techniques for the oil that he recommended using at the rate of a gram a day. The levels of chlorophyll are not as high using quick wash techniques. You can also use more than one wash to get a higher yield.

Like the different meds, everyone's systems are also different. Some people can tolerate more chlorophyll than others. Just something to be sensitive to when selecting the right tool from our bag of tricks and symptoms to watch out for if you are supplying concentrates to others.
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#13 Graywolf

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:59 PM

Bump! This discussion is open for the unwanted controversy on the previous thread on reflux extraction, as long as it is factual and not personal attacks in lieu of facts. Radic and I are reviewing this issue and setting up experiments to quantify chlorophyll levels. We will report back when we have results and will invite your critical review at that time. In the interim, any data on how to best to accomplish that are welcomed, but personal opinions and point justification based on personalities will be a continued affront to the professionalism of this scientific community. May I add this little bit of research for all to consider? Studies show that about 10% of the population is responsible for the evolution of civilization and the other 90% is responsible for its survival. The 10% are those whom do not accept the status quo or rigid boundaries and are always the risk takers pushing the boundaries and trying to change things for the better. They invented civilization and are why we are not still in the trees with the gorillas and the chimps. The 90% are the ones responsible for the more highly evolved civilization surviving, because risk takers can be dangerous and get killed more often than those whom hold on to the status quo. Besides a higher death through trauma, history is pretty clear that sometimes the 90% kills the 10%, because they scare the shit out of them and make them feel less intelligent! Sometimes the 10% gets in control and we have mass genocide using nerve gas or nuclear bombs and toss the human shards in the ovens or make soap out of them. Neither extreme is all that pretty and the truth is that we have survived and flourished because every time the pendulum swings too far in one direction, it eventually swings just as far in the other, as an opposite and equal reaction. In both cases, only the extremists and zealot are comfortable and having fun at the extremes. The actual truth of course lies in balance, which usually lies somewhere nearer, but not necessarily the center. It has nothing to do with intelligence. We all have our areas of specialty and are woefully ignorant in any number of other areas. Synergism is sharing our own areas of strength with others and drawing from them that which they are strong in so that we complement each other. I challenge those responding on this thread to keep that in mind. Please ask any pertinent question that you desire and please share pertinent facts or insights that you possess. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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#14 mediuse

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for the bump GW...got a whole mess O stuff to read hehehe...and this is way up on the list hehehe... Cannot concentrate enough to read @ the moment...the heat is really frying my brain and making thought a lil difficult... expect me to  start replying intelligently soon... muhahahah Thanks man. muA
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#15 Radic

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:38 PM

greetnz
i cant do any experiments as yet,.,. cause i dont have nuff product
after harvest
till then
come make we reason.,.,.
first.,., i noticed from the pix, that the plant material you started with is---> dark green
excellent
to i that.,.,. is a sign of --->>>high Chlorophyll content
that is a the most you could get in
a worst case scenario
seen
from that Chlorophyll extract MSDS.pdf

Chlorophyll extract Solubility: Insoluble in cold water.

seen
thats confirms why QCW technique works so well
also the ice water hashish technique
and thats why we use tepid water to wash out the Chlorophyll
seen
maybe?????
then as we reduce the temp of the water,.,.,., the Chlorophyll should drop out
seen????????
also
we must use distilled water with a known weight eg,.1kg/1lt and no pollution

weight the water/Chlorophyll solution
any extra weight will be the Chlorophyll

we need to know the weight of the water
and the weight of the plant material we started with
and tjhe weight of the Chlorophyll/water solution with the plant material strained out
seen
if we work with one standard dose we need to have access to equipment that can accurately weigh 1000th of a gram or 0.001g
or 10 doses we need to weigh accurately to 0.01g
or 100 doses 0.1g

standard dose
1/8g or 125mg of cannabis extract is considered a standard dose
a strong dose 1/4g = 250mg
a extra strong dose is 1/3 of a gram that is about 330mg
seen
now we know from the poisons information site 100mg of Chlorophyll can cause toxicity
seen
1000mg = 1g
so 100mg is one tenth of a gram
seen
here is the big question
is it possible to fit 1/10g of Chlorophyll into the usual dose for people who suffer these negative side effects???????
seen
if they are taking strong or extra strong doses then i would consider Chlorophyll toxicity a possibility
and may be the reason why they use such a strong dose to get the relief they require
Q
does a dose of BHO.,., 1/10g smaller then the usual dose of alcohol/reflux extract,..,.,. get the same results for these suffers?????????

guidance
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#16 Graywolf

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 06:50 AM

Our best gram scale finests division only goes to .01 at 452.8 grams per pound or .04528 divisions per pound. I normally use a powder grain scale, at 7000 grains per pound and a 0.1 accuracy or .0143 parts per pound, but I will pick up a milligram scale for this experiment.
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#17 Radic

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:34 AM

ireyness

Our best gram scale finests division only goes to .01

thats fine
it clicks over every 100th of a gram in stead of every 1,000th of a gram
so that will be one tenth of a gram or 0.1g = 100mg .,.,.,0.2g = 200mg etc
to make the calculations eze
start with and amount of alcohol/reflux extract equal to 10 single doses

there are some cheap digital scales available too
or better still
a double or triple beam balance will dowit
i have a double that is accurate150g to 0.01g

Q
when the suferer changes to BHO
does the sufferer use a single dose of BHO.,., that is 1/10g smaller.,.,.
then the usual single dose of alcohol/reflux extract,..,.,. to get the same therapeutic results?????????

guidance
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#18 Graywolf

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:20 AM

My old Ohaus 2001 triple beam standby is only graduated to .1 grams on the dial. My RCBS Dialamatic power scale is a beam balance scale too,but again the dial is only calibrated in .1 graduations. I have a couple of digitals that are calibrated in .1 grams, but Joe picked up one from American Scientific calibrated in .01 and they have them available in .001 for under $50, though they only go up to 500 grams. At that price, I'm thinking that I should bite the bullet and pick one up for .0000022 parts per pound accuracy for this experient. Hee, hee, hee.......... Usually my patients titrate to determine dosage, but the ones suffering gastric upset on alcohol reflux are taking aproximately .33 grams per dose of either. The prescribed RS dosage is by weight per day, as opposed to different weights of differnt oils, so we just stayed the same.
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