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Preliminary Experiments On With The Volcano Temperature Setting....


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#1 John Berfelo

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:05 PM

Preliminary experiments on with the Volcano temperature setting....

By Dr Hornby and research team..

Well we ran some preliminary experiments with the Volcano. I will report these
findings with a caution that they are merely pilot experiments, to find our way only.
Figure i put my foot in it by promising results, not thinking about the consequences that
the findings may bring. And now we're realizing that we may be opening up a whole new can of worms.

Firstly, we have known for some time that the Volcano does not deliver all of the THC, particularly at
the lower settings, of around 5 and 6. We know this since we use high-pressure liquid chromatography
(HPLC) to measure the amounts of the most abundant cannabinoids, that are present in the sample,
before and after vaporization. By measuring the THC, for example, left behind in the sample carcass,
we can determine the efficiency of the vaporizer setting, since we also know what we started
out with.

Since this is a study of heating cannabis we must consider a couple of things.
One is that THC, plus the other cannabinoids, are not active as they sit in nature.
For them to interact with the THC receptor, firstly they must be de-carboxylated or activated.
Meaning CO2, must be kicked off the parent molecules, that in the un de-carboxylated
form are acids, chemically speaking. De-carboxylation, in this case, is accomplished by heating,
which, in turn, excites the chemical bonds of the, for example, THC molecule causing it to release
carbon dioxide at the weakest bond. This, subsequently, activates the molecule, allowing receptor interaction.

If more heat is applied to the molecule, eventually it will reach its boiling point and enter the vapor state.
De-carboxylation occurs before evaporation and over a broader range of temperatures.
And is critical for understanding cannabinoid pharmacology. Therefore in vaporization we have a two-fold
process occurring that allows the medicine to be delivered. De-carboxylation, followed by evaporation.

When we run cannabinoids by HPLC we see the acids of CBD, CBN and THC, plus trace amounts
of these already de-carboxylated cannabinoids (alcohols as they're called, chemically). We normally total the acids with the alcohols to come up with total THC, CBD or CBN for the sample.

In the experiments discussed here we vaporized a cannabis sample that had already been shown
to contain an unusually high amount of THC, with relatively high CBD.
We ran three separate experiments at Volcano settings 6, 7.5 and 9. At each test, the same
weight of cannabis was placed in the volcano and two bags vapped for the same time period.
Following vaporization, the carcass (sample left behind), for each temperature setting was analyzed
for the three most abundant cannabinoids.

We will attempt to tabulate below our experimental results.


Volcano Setting THC remaining mg/g CBN remaining mg/g CBD remaining mg/g

6 260 0.05 0.6

7.5 245 0.05 0.6

9.0 75 0.05 0.15

With all HPLC analysis there is an error window associated with the quantification. This window is normally acceptable if it has a coefficient of variation of 15% or less. This is simply a statistical evaluation of the standard deviation or variation around the mean, divided by the mean and a percent value taken.
So with THC there is often an error window of plus or minus 2% around the measurement and for CBD and CBN
this is more like plus or minus 0.05%. To convert the above results to a percent value, simply divide by 10.

So, what do we learn from these results. Nothing about decarboxylation, since it's not presented here,
although much is gained from observing the chromatography (not shown), where a one to one decrease
of the cannabinoid acid and increase in the alcohol is seen. Nevertheless, in the table we are showing only
the de-carboxylated actives that are left behind.

As stated earlier, the cannabis sample used in this experiment tested particularly high in THC,
running at 260, + or - 40 mg/gram. As shown in the table, this did not change for setting 6 on the Volcano
and changed only slightly for setting 7.5. We only see a significant decrease in THC at setting 9.
These results also confirm earlier observations.

The boiling points of the three cannabinoids measured are as follows:

THC 200 C
CBD 190 C
CBN 185 C

We can see from our before and after sample, that CBN is virtually all gone at setting 6, leaving
only residual amounts. The THC, however, all remains at this setting. As does the CBD.
At setting 7.5 the THC is fully de-carboxylated, but still present to roughly 95% of its original value.
Interestingly, at this setting the CBD is only half de-carboxylated.

At setting 9, all three are fully de-carboxylated and have moved to the vapor state.
A small amount of CBD remains as does some THC.

We can conclude from these very preliminary experiments that with the Volcano at setting
6 all the CBN is gone along with the more volatile terpenes and aromatics. Yet at this
setting, although the THC and CBD are being activated they have still not received enough heat
to enter the vapor state. In addition, at setting 7.5, similar conditions hold, with the THC still
not evaporated. It's only at setting 9 that THC receives sufficient energy to become volatile.

That's it for today. And remember these results are preliminary.
We will continue to conduct more experiments on the Volcano, next
time focusing more on what happens to the CBD and at what setting.


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#2 John Berfelo

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:06 PM

We did another experiment to six bags and behold, all is gone. THC acid, converted THC, CBN and CBD, all gone skyward. This is at Volcano setting 7 and six bags were taken. So between 2 bags, where virtually all the THC is still present, and bag six the THC is being boiled off. To 2 bags it's all terpenes and aromatics. Suppose, we will have to narrow it down, to see if there is one bag where the THC, fly's, at setting 7. Bet it's bag 4. We'll see... We ran another experiment with the Volcano. This time we collected 6 bgas at setting 6. This just doesn't move the THC into the bag, only decarboxylating about 20% but not boiling any off. Its aroma therapy at setting 6, very little, if any, active THC is delivered. Of course at this setting you will be blowing off the terepenes and other lower molecular weight aromatics, that do, indeed, have psychoactive properties. Incidently, these compounds, termed the essential oils, have been banned, as long as the plant. It's my notion that the euphoric part of the cannabis experience is a result of the essential oils and not THC. Finally, i must remind that these are merely preliminary experiments, used to guide the way to collecting more confirmatory data. All experiments of this type must be repeated a number of times, with means and standard deviations from the mean, determined.
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#3 John Berfelo

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:07 PM

More experiments with the Volcano, taking samples from various temperature settings and bag numbers. In all cases we are measuring the amount of the most abundant cannabinoids in a sample taken from the left-overs in the vaporization chamber. Since we know the mg/g amounts of THC, CBD and CBN in the starting material, we can determine how much of each cannabinoid has been "blown off", at what temperature setting and what bag number. I believe that earlier i stated that all of the active THC is not delivered until bag 4 at setting 7.5. In this set of experiments samples were prepared by a member assistant, according to a defined method. Here we investigated three other temperature settings of the Volcano: level 3, level 4 and level 8. At each setting 4 or more bags were collected. The sample used was a Kush with a THC level of roughly 150 mg/g. CBD and CBN both in the 3 mg/g range. These sort of values are very common here in BC and the profile very typical of BC cannabis. At level 3 we see efficient decarboxylation, so we know our sample is seeing heat, but not enough to send the THC skyward. This level is a good way of making an oral prep, from the carcass, since at bag 3 all of the THC is activated. But you would have to wait until at least bag 3 to get better than 90% of the THC in the activated form. Level 4 experiments were conducted the same as for level 3. With the same amount of cannabis (0.3 g) being processed and bags collected in the same time period. Level 4 is no more exciting in terms of lifting the THC to the vapor state and is simply a continuation of efficient decarboxylation of the THC-A to active delta-9 THC. Once again a bag 3 greater than 90% of the THC is activated, and less than 1%, blown off. Therefore breathing the vapors collected at bag 3, level 4, is at best aroma therapy, with very little active THC being delivered. Now we go to level 8. Immediately, at bag 1 all the THC is decarboxylated and roughly two thirds delivered. And at bag 3 80% of the activated THC is gone. So once again we make the observation that a level setting of 7.5, or above, is required for 3 bags to deliver activated THC. Lower settings, indeed deliver active medicine in the form of terpenes and aromatics, essential oils long know for therapeutic properties. I have often thought this is where the euphoric experience of cannabis lies in these, also prohibited, oils. Anyway, that was about $2500.00 worth of LC work to do that outlined above. We accept all donations to help support with this and continued research. Grow in Peace Dr. Hornby and research team..
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#4 Itinkso

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:27 AM

brilliant information for those who vape...thankyou!!
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#5 GeeGee

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:31 AM

Tink, ya beating me to it LOL Really great John, Thanks for sharing this!
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#6 John Berfelo

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 11:56 AM

If any one has any Q feel free to ask, I ran all the experiments with Paul.. Peace
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#7 ALF

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 05:56 PM

Very Interesting post. I have a friend who owns a volcano, he has been frustrated with it. Gonna forward this to him! thanks!
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#8 RastaBuds

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 06:47 PM

As a Volcano owner this information is very useful. Thank you so much!
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#9 ditto257

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 09:35 AM

Right on folks..I often wondered about my Volcano's efficiency but lacked the resources to experiment as you have.. Thanks to all involved..For the record I have ran mine at 7.5 vaped the product usually twice ( two fills of the bag) then dumped the remains into a jar which I later used to make a tincture.. Take care one and all....
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#10 robotdinosaur

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:15 PM

I keep mine at 6 and am always pleasantly stoned by it. I usually vaporize a chamber-ful, twice.
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#11 John Berfelo

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:51 PM

I find level 3-5 works good in the morning and in the evening I like level 9 After we ran the experiments we found the most members had great results burning on level 7 People with chronic pain back pain like level 9
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#12 mary896

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:53 PM

Hi all, thanks to John for the great info. For those with a digital Volcano like me and my hubby, we set the temp. to about 276F. Came to that temp. from our own experimentation. How would 276F correlate with the 1-10 levels of the standard Volcano? Just want to know where we're at relatively. We use that temp. and clear usually three bags. I'm going to print all your great Volcano info. John and read it carefully, thank you again! ~Mary
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#13 RobinSpeaks

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:48 PM

More experiments with the Volcano, taking samples from various temperature settings and bag numbers. In all cases we are measuring the amount of the most abundant cannabinoids in a sample taken from the left-overs in the vaporization chamber. Since we know the mg/g amounts of THC, CBD and CBN in the starting material, we can determine how much of each cannabinoid has been "blown off", at what temperature setting and what bag number. I believe that earlier i stated that all of the active THC is not delivered until bag 4 at setting 7.5.

In this set of experiments samples were prepared by a member assistant, according to a defined method.
Here we investigated three other temperature settings of the Volcano: level 3, level 4 and level 8. At each
setting 4 or more bags were collected.

The sample used was a Kush with a THC level of roughly 150 mg/g. CBD and CBN both in the 3 mg/g range.
These sort of values are very common here in BC and the profile very typical of BC cannabis.

At level 3 we see efficient decarboxylation, so we know our sample is seeing heat, but not enough to send the THC skyward. This level is a good way of making an oral prep, from the carcass, since at bag 3 all of the THC is activated. But you would have to wait until at least bag 3 to get better than 90% of the THC in the activated form.

Level 4 experiments were conducted the same as for level 3. With the same amount of cannabis (0.3 g) being processed and bags collected in the same time period. Level 4 is no more exciting in terms of lifting the THC to the vapor state and is simply a continuation of efficient decarboxylation of the THC-A to active delta-9 THC.
Once again a bag 3 greater than 90% of the THC is activated, and less than 1%, blown off. Therefore breathing the vapors collected at bag 3, level 4, is at best aroma therapy, with very little active THC being delivered.

Now we go to level 8. Immediately, at bag 1 all the THC is decarboxylated and roughly two thirds delivered.
And at bag 3 80% of the activated THC is gone. So once again we make the observation that a level setting of 7.5, or above, is required for 3 bags to deliver activated THC. Lower settings, indeed deliver active medicine in the form of terpenes and aromatics, essential oils long know for therapeutic properties. I have often thought this is where the euphoric experience of cannabis lies in these, also prohibited, oils.

Anyway, that was about $2500.00 worth of LC work to do that outlined above.
We accept all donations to help support with this and continued research.
Grow in Peace
Dr. Hornby and research team..



Thank you very much. Do we know anything about the compounds that had been destroyed from the vaporization?
Can you draw anything from this about setting the Volcano for patients wanting high CBD / THC?
What are the temperatures at theses settings?
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#14 John Berfelo

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:10 PM

Hi all, thanks to John for the great info. For those with a digital Volcano like me and my hubby, we set the temp. to about 276F. Came to that temp. from our own experimentation. How would 276F correlate with the 1-10 levels of the standard Volcano? Just want to know where we're at relatively. We use that temp. and clear usually three bags. I'm going to print all your great Volcano info. John and read it carefully, thank you again!
~Mary

Air temperature table for the Volcano Vaporizer Scale:
http://www.storz-bic...tabelle_us.html
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#15 John Berfelo

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:27 PM

Thank you very much. Do we know anything about the compounds that had been destroyed from the vaporization?
Can you draw anything from this about setting the Volcano for patients wanting high CBD / THC?
What are the temperatures at theses settings?

Here is some info on temperatures Phytocannabinoids, their boiling points, and properties


Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

cannabigerol (CBG)
Boiling point: MP52
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant


There flash points: CBD 206.3°C, CBN 212.7°C, THC 149.3°C
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#16 cbdheal56

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

Hey John have you done any testing on temperatures for activation for making oil , I've read so much on temps but nobody is getting to the correct temps and time frame of heating the oil with grain alcohol for cbd , what temp to heat how long etc for maximum cbd . ingesting the cannabis has so much more health benefits.
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#17 Stoned Ranger

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:29 PM

Hey John have you done any testing on temperatures for activation for making oil , I've read so much on temps but nobody is getting to the correct temps and time frame of heating the oil with grain alcohol for cbd , what temp to heat how long etc for maximum cbd . ingesting the cannabis has so much more health benefits.


This topic is 3 years old,,John is no more. You want to set the temp to the boiling point of the grain alcohol which is 173 degrees F. You might want to use a dbl boiler there's less chance for scorching. You want to let it boil the alcohol out, when the bubbles stop you are pretty much done. Some say that at the very end to drop a few drops of water to rid of the alcohol but I do not think you need to do this because of your use of grain alcohol which is organic. I hope this helps you.
SR
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#18 Ellis9

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:45 PM

This is GREAT information! After reading it, I siggested that my J try a bag or two at 9 instead of 7, just to see if there was a difference - THERE WAS. Here are to emails she sent me: "turning it to nine, is like a new drug. i feel a lot more relief. i slept better, i have zero depression or anxiety, and my sinuses are opening more. omg, its so so awesome u r reading and learning. this was a huge find. excellent work. seriously. thanks!!!!!!" and "yeah its like my nervous system is always over fired and shaking. i feel it. spasms at the core. on #9 i have profound relaxation, and the nervous system feels like it's able to rest. its like anesthesia, or how kava is for u? and happy peaceful. no, its a big amazing improvement."

#19 GreenWeaver

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:15 AM

The hotter the better....still talking about vaporizers. What's the temperature of titanium nail at red amber? I know the torches leaves negative foot prints on nature, must invest on electrical. Is it too early to write Santa?

#20 jnandai

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:49 PM

i have switched from a setting of 7.5 (which i have used for a few years) to a 9. a huge difference for me in the effect and symptom relief. but the harshness is hard to take. i am going to try and hang with it, because i am feeling better. anything i can do to help my lungs? alot of coughing, so i try to smoke the bag with alot of breaks.

#21 enterprisebbc

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:57 AM

i have switched from a setting of 7.5 (which i have used for a few years) to a 9. a huge difference for me in the effect and symptom relief. but the harshness is hard to take. i am going to try and hang with it, because i am feeling better. anything i can do to help my lungs? alot of coughing, so i try to smoke the bag with alot of breaks.

If you wanted to only get CBD's from the Vape how would you do it?

#22 KnuckleDragger

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 10:18 AM

CBD and THC are closely related and vape at about the dame temps. CBD temp should be set a lttle higher than THC.


A smokeless cannabis-vaporizing device delivers the same level of active therapeutic chemical and produces the same biological effect as smoking cannabis, but without the harmful toxins, according to University of California San Francisco researchers.
Have you ever wondered what temperature you should use for your vaporizer?
Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Anti-inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic
Boiling point:157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
a
Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ-8-THC)
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Cannabinol CBD
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Anti-inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Cannabinol CBN
Properties: (Oxidation breakdown product) Sedative, Antibiotic
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Cannabichromene CBC
Properties: Anti-inflammatory, Antibiotic, Anti-fungal




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