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Parent's medical use isn't child endangerment!


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#1 Storm Crow

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:09 PM

A little sanity from Colorado! Now if it only would spread!:)





Parent’s Medical Marijuana Use Isn’t Child Endangerment, Court Rules

Posted on 27 May 2010
Tags: Medical Marijuana, Rob Corry



By Matt Masich, LAW WEEK COLORADO
DENVER — A parent’s use of medical marijuana does not necessarily constitute child endangerment, the Colorado Court of Appeals ruled Thursday. The determination of whether medical marijuana use presents a threat to a child’s safety should be made on a case-by-case basis, the court held.
Medical marijuana has been legal in Colorado for a decade, but urinalysis testing for marijuana is still used in some child custody matters. The parenting plan agreed to by divorced couple David Lyman and Catherine Parr called for the father to undergo “[o]ngoing UA’s [urinalysis tests] and drug screenings to demonstrate that he does not return to marijuana use.”
But a week after signing the parenting plan, Lyman learned he had been granted a license to use medical marijuana to treat back and knee pain resulting from a motorcycle accident.
Lyman filed a motion to asking a magistrate judge to waive the urinalysis requirement, but the magistrate said Lyman had voluntarily signed the parenting plan ordering urinalysis and was “stuck with it.”
A year later, El Paso County District Judge Rebecca Bromley upheld that order, but modified it to say Lyman could only have supervised parenting time until he could demonstrate to the court that his use of medical marijuana is not detrimental to his child. Bromley also held that Lyman could not petition for unsupervised visitation until he submitted a clean hair follicle test.
A three-judge Court of Appeals panel released 2-1 decision reversing Bromley’s more stringent order but upholding the original order calling for urinalysis.
“[T]he record does not show that father’s use of medical marijuana represented a threat to the physical and emotional health and safety of the child, or otherwise suggested any risk of harm,” Judge Daniel Taubman wrote in the court’s opinion. “Thus, father’s use of medical marijuana cannot support the trial court’s restriction on his parenting time.”
The court also vacated the order for hair follicle tests. However, the court was very clear on what it was not deciding.
“[W]e do not express an opinion as to whether medical marijuana use may constitute endangerment; rather, we conclude only that endangerment was not shown here,” Taubman wrote. “We also express no view on father’s constitutional right to use medical marijuana and whether the exercise of this right should bar UAs and drug screening.”
The court also said nothing in its decision would stop Lyman from arguing that his constitutional right to use medical marijuana should bar urinalysis testing. Neither does the opinion prevent Parr from asking for a hearing to restrict Lyman’s parenting time.
Judge David Furman wrote a special concurring opinion, saying that the best interests of the child should be the only thing considered in making a parenting plan, regardless of Lyman’s constitutional right to use marijuana.
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#2 Sprocket

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:15 PM

Thanks Storm Crow!!! I stickied this thread as it is definite need to read for everyone, IMO.
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#3 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:23 PM

Excellent Post. thanks Storm...hugs to you....
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#4 bigandy25

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:25 PM

I like marijuana, but its like smoking an drinkin, dont do it around ur children...
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#5 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:41 PM

I do agree with that bigandy, however if someone is bedridden and the child walks in...discretion. We have two teens here every other weekend and we still make all efforts to protect them from anything being exposed...knowing full well, in a group of their own peers...what might be going on..... I always tried to keep those aspects out of my own son's life,,,but he still smoked pot...just like his mom did as a teen...
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#6 Vapor

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:44 PM

I have kids they will be around me till I die, I'm not going to hide it from them and they will learn to respect it for it's medical value unlike me, that started out just getting "High" Smoking and drinking around kids has been happening for a very long time. What's worse? My daughter used to watch me take my pills and I told her it's my medicine she's seen what it doesnailbiting.gif If I go get medicated now I tell her the same. I'm not trying to start a fightshakehands.gif Vapor Dad
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#7 jangel

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:03 PM

I have kids they will be around me till I die, I'm not going to hide it from them and they will learn to respect it for it's medical value unlike me, that started out just getting "High"

Smoking and drinking around kids has been happening for a very long time. What's worse?

My daughter used to watch me take my pills and I told her it's my medicine she's seen what it doesnailbiting.gif If I go get medicated now I tell her the same.

I'm not trying to start a fightshakehands.gif

Vapor Dad


I do agree to a point. I would not drink or get drunk around my kids. Nor do I think it right to be out of control on anything. I believe if a parent medicates with cannabis by smoking it, then they also should do this in another room. I know for a fact that it can be absorbed by others in the room and show up in hair and urine analysis just by being in the room. I don't know about hiding it so much as doing it out of sight. Until my kids reached a certain age of understanding and maturity they did not know I smoked. It was not their business. And here too there is the school DARE program. Similar to my mind to the SS indoctrination of children. This is so individual, I don't know that there is a right or wrong way. I know, my daughter, I would not of let know, as she cannot keep a secret. My son was different. So to my mind, it is very "by the child" rather than "Do this, do that".

My daughter now knows what I do, and I have explained to her what cannabis does. She started smoking cannabis on her own. She will be 18 in 2 weeks so it is done now. She did not do this because of me, though, so what can I say to her? I started smoking much much younger as well as other things. She does not need to know this though. When she too is a mum I will talk to her about it. Now it would just be a license to misbehave...LOL!

Edited by jangel, 09 June 2010 - 04:10 PM.

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#8 Vapor

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:21 PM

Sorry for any misunderstanding I don't medicate in front of my daughter or son, I vape in a room that has an exhaust fan running 24/7 or in my garage. My kids would pass a drug test shakehands.gif The D.A.R.E program lol what a joke. It's a place to get kids to rat on there parent's, I know I did it and my dad let me know that I F-up bad later on in life :eek: My kids will be missing that day(s) in school and learn about bad drugs from me or my wife Sorry if I'm off my rocker but I'm off my medsnailbiting.gif Vapor Dad
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#9 jangel

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:28 PM

Sorry for any misunderstanding I don't medicate in front of my daughter or son, I vape in a room that has an exhaust fan running 24/7 or in my garage. My kids would pass a drug test shakehands.gif

The D.A.R.E program lol what a joke. It's a place to get kids to rat on there parent's, I know I did it and my dad let me know that I F-up bad later on in life :eek: My kids will be missing that day(s) in school and learn about bad drugs from me or my wife

Sorry if I'm off my rocker but I'm off my medsnailbiting.gif

Vapor Dad



Sweetheart, I am not disagreeing with you. I am discussing this with you. And giving you my opinion. You have done nothing at all wrong. Please, relax. It is all cool.

No worries. We do not ban people because they express a different opinion here. It is okay.

:eek:
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#10 robotdinosaur

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:42 PM

I like marijuana, but its like smoking an drinkin, dont do it around ur children...


I don't use MMJ in front of my children (my Volcano is in my veg room) but it's thinking like this that keeps it illegal. It is a medicine for many - I would NEVER consume MMJ and drive (especially with my kids in the car) but I don't think it should be grouped together with drinking.
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#11 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:50 PM

Nobody in my home drinks...so we never have that issue, however it is often used in generalized terms of the things we protect our children from. Most of the older teens that I am acquainted with in this area, have grown up in the California Hippie environment and growing and smoking pot and smelling it in the air is so common around here...it even shocked me when I moved back....The clouds rise over this area...around town..not my own home...and it is quite apparent, what that smell is..... I agree Jangel...it is all individualized and some are okay with it, some are holier than thou, some relaxed and it is a matter of personal choice... The education of herb comes with the proper environment and time. Children are much brighter than most even give them credit for.....
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#12 jangel

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 05:25 PM

I don't use MMJ in front of my children (my Volcano is in my veg room) but it's thinking like this that keeps it illegal. It is a medicine for many - I would NEVER consume MMJ and drive (especially with my kids in the car) but I don't think it should be grouped together with drinking.


That is right, it is a medicine. The thing of it is, for me, I have used it recreationally pretty much all my adult life. So to me, and this is just MY Humble Opinion, I do not think it should be done around little kids. And being first off a rec smoker, I lump it together with things that are done by adults, not kids. I know now, that I have explored this more over the last years, that I have indeed been using it for medicine, to help me sleep, since my teens. I didn't know it was medicinal though. I just knew it helped me sleep and used it for that. shakehands.gif
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#13 robotdinosaur

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 05:28 PM

I understand Jangel. As stated, I don't use my medicine in front of my children, but on the weekend (while home during the day) if my pain is bad, I step outside into my veg room, fill a bag, consume and then get back to my kids. If it allows me to spend time with them, not in pain, I have no problem with being medicated in front of them. PLUS, we have a goofy giggly time together and they have no idea I've consumed.
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#14 mediuse

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 09:42 PM

Wish I could read the court documents and ch@ with th@ guy AND his vampires...er, Lawyers, here on GP... The amount of legal ammo th@ would come out! wow! Whilst this IS situation and location specific, the amount of thought, discussion, research, notes and info involved in this could potentially be adapted for use in defense, when situations permit. muA

#15 Sprocket

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:33 AM

I understand Jangel. As stated, I don't use my medicine in front of my children, but on the weekend (while home during the day) if my pain is bad, I step outside into my veg room, fill a bag, consume and then get back to my kids.
If it allows me to spend time with them, not in pain, I have no problem with being medicated in front of them. PLUS, we have a goofy giggly time together and they have no idea I've consumed.


I completely agree with your method, and I practice it as well.
Only because my daughters are 3 (soon to be 4) and 7, so they are not capable of understanding complex issues, especially one as loaded and controversial as MMJ and the fight to have it legalized.

My hope is that when they are old enough to understand, that it will be legal.

Keep fighting the fight.

peace(and pot)
Sprocket
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#16 iowabush

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:17 PM

Ok, two cents from Iowa? vitamins have been almost debunked as an everyday take one in the morning pill. I am big on suppliments someways, but not a megahooter of them. Cannabis and children are another deal entirely because cannabis can intoxicate adults or children. Intoxication means whatever we are discussing has a poison rating in the LD 50 toxicity scale. But, cannabis is a genuine exception to this as evidenced by no drug hangover. No drug overdose deaths, ever. It very gently modifies human behavior. It is fantastic! I am an old construction worker as well as electronics tech and I have seen the lunch break joint calm down some of the MOST assholioles you never want to be around. And they worked better after the communal bonfire, too. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but it needs to be in the context of this discussion... cannabis kills people best by the lethal dose being dropped on their neck, not being smoked down it to the lungs. You absolutely can't kill a child with pot overdose unless you follow the same formula of dropping it on them. period. This is Part of the picture. It is a complex picture for sure because nothing we can discuss is more complex than our children. The marijuana witch hunters capitalize on this complexity by telling us that they disenfranchise and enslave to protect the children. I have the unfortunate experience of hearing senaturd Chuck Grassley of Iowa say it. He is a pot nazi and a liar to the people of Iowa. Cannabis oil extracts are going to be given to children in the future just as we do vitamins now. too much B complex will kill you. Iron over dose is the most common overdose from minerals as a way to die. The dosage will obviously be a sub-intoxication dose. That is a natural part of the titration calculation process. The dosage will be for food to the children. food. The LD-50 stats of tomatoes and cannabis are similar, large numbers. You want large numbers to be safe with the LD-50 system. Now, I want to ask all of you a question: What types of tissue lie behind the Brain-Blood Barrier? anyone else take anatomy and physiology? what's behind the barrier? EEENNNNTTTT!!! Wrong! you been lied to some more! Just where do you think most of the Endocannabinoid system is at? Oh, it's all over your whole body, for sure. But, quite alot of it is inside your brain... behind what you were taught was this and that... but science marches on, doesn't it? The marijuana witch hunters do not own the truth. they own the guns. It was the most colossal rush to stand in front of them, but we did it and almost freed Iowa in a stroke with the Iowa Pharmacy board struggle. Pot doesn't hurt kids, but it obviously can interfer with going out to play or study and we don't need that. 100 people a year die from white potatoe overdose, maybe 150 right here in the USA. 100 peeps die a year, world wide, from coconuts falling and hitting them on the head. turn down the pension seeking fearmongering and turn up the truth. Legalize in Iowa!

#17 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 05:06 PM

Bottom line is that anyone can be allergic to a product, herb, food....etc... I am one of those who believes in 'not blatantly around the children', however, just as any form of medicine or food....you take some chances. If in the future, the legalization brings about more positive abundance of help for specific illnesses and it is prescribed or recommended for children, it should also be monitored by those administering to make sure...no allergies occur. I have seen people who did not know...or have dogs, who they did not know...Have an allergy to something and go into anaphylactic shock...and it is friggin scary... Personally, it would seem effective to get rid of all the crappy meds given to ADD and ADHD children and give them a specific strain....that helps in those who have been diagnosed as such. There is always going to be a negative, positive and grey area.....however the more energy focused on the positive...the stronger the light... I have no patience for fearmongering and no patience for personally living paranoid...myself... As long as the herb for children is used medicinally and positively, I honestly feel it would be far greater than what doctors deem appropriate today.... Kids get codiene...without docs batting an eyelash and yes vitamins for some can be deadly....or what they are made with as fillers.... Not that I say...offer it up to the wild crazy kid...however it might make the sand box a bit more compatible...and I say that with a touch of humor...cause adults play in the sand as well... Just my 3 cents....

Edited by CaliWildViolet420, 07 July 2010 - 05:08 PM.
typos


#18 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 05:07 PM

Has anyone seen the video of the Samoan Child who smokes two packs of cigarettes a day??? it was on some news show a few weeks back......

#19 artistickat

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 07:19 PM

Indonesian kid, yeah I saw it. Horrible parents!!!! I mean holy cow the kid can't walk to the store and cash his paycheck to buy them!

#20 iowabush

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:31 PM

CWV, you got the only direct hit I genuinely imagine as a "no" on pot... allergies. you don't even have to be allergic to something, you can be allergic to anything particulate touching those delicate cilliary fibers in the bronchi and there you go. substance is not always the issue. suspended particulates can be, too. As you probo already know, ciggies immediately stun the cilliary fibers of the lungs. can't have anything cleaning up when we are poisoning ourselves, now can we? sigh so, I am about sick to my stomach at the idea of a little kid sucking up real death, courtesy of the tobacco merchants. free markets?

#21 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:39 PM

oh no...I am not saying "no", I am saying that carefully.....I do not agree with doctors putting kids on drugs immediately to cure a problem....I think testing a small dosage and understanding need and appropriateness.... I think more kids are messed up from wrong medications....than those who eventually might benefit from the calming affects of THC...

#22 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:40 PM

I was shocked that anyone would find that kid smoking funny....but in the minds of the immature idiocy does flow....

#23 iowabush

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 12:14 AM

CWV, I'm pretty sure we are about the same in that medicine is best when it's artfully and scientifically fit to a client and that age is not the biggest concern, effective treatment is. Oh, and even if we aren't, so what? worst that might happen is we could get convinced of a different view. My only real point is that cannabis is safe for children as a medicine in general. specifics now, sub inebrieating doses if possible and if not because the dose may need to be higher for behavior or something else, then don't fear because the medication is so gentle even in greater strength. I just love it that there are so many strains I have never tried yet and that there's all this potential to heal yet to happen for us. I have severe migraines and it defo takes a stoner grade blast of percocets or pot, if not both at the same time, to get my attention. sry if I was out there, but I think we agree. We are trying to get a real-world medication to happen and there is so much confusion and wrath fighting us down. and, early on, I didn't let my little ones see me smoke the pot, either. but, they grew up knowing that when judge judy came on that the old man was not down with fake court telling people how nice it is or how fair it is,either. cause it's not. the youngest at twenties quit along with ciggies. fine sacrifice because ciggies are really deadly. other one? ahh, he just finished a smoke with dear old dad. my advocacy freaks even him, but he knows that someone has to step up.. it's all part of the deal lol

Edited by iowabush, 08 July 2010 - 12:24 AM.


#24 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 10:08 AM

Hi Iowa...Yes, I love that we can all agree to disagree...I have severe migraine issues as well and have been hospitalized for them and emergency room....The fourth time since 2008, I had a brain scan. Prior to 2008 and my brothers massive accident...helicopters over the grow..no cards then...and other issues, never had migraines that severe...hence determination was a stress factor contributing to over work and so forth... I have all the meds prescribed and so forth and it does take a combination for me....and when I have a migraine...it shuts me down completely, with naseua, eyes hurt, light and sound pounds thru me...and more. So, I totally understand your illness....and sympathize...completely!!! And...the other stress factor in all of this..NO health insurance, however as a blessing...Catholic Charities stepped up and chose me to pay the hospital bills for one year....so, I still have that til, I think Feb... Medicruz, told me, cause I had some unemployment..meager...that they would not pay, however if I got sick in April, I would be okay...Who plans a migraine??? Time will tell, where it all will lead....Many medicines in synthetic started from a form of herb or plant....and such as it should be with cannabis... Oakland just opened up a new area...well, it was probably there all along for testing the meds...I do like the process of understanding that no mold or pesticides are in it..but I do not applaud the labs that charge huge fees....touting health, when we all know...it is money based...they charge $300.00 a bud..for pesticides...and $120. for THC, CBD, and the other one... how odd is it that, that adds up to 420... As far as recreational side...My sister lived at a commune for a bit in Santa Cruz Mountains...I was there one day...as a teen cooking Piroshki for the 20 or so...as a treat...and one adult was having an arguement with his five year old son....I kid you not on the words, I have never forgotten... "No, you cannot have a toke today, you were not good!" So, we have our choices...and then again...if the child were super hyperactive and the adults were making a choice to medicate...that would be one thing..I did not ask...... Hugs!!!!!!!!!



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