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Balm from canna roots


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#26 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:33 PM

Better safe than Sorry....Since Medi is doing a lot of research on the uses of the roots...I trust the information on his thread!!! Until we know different, there are plenty of other parts of the plants to use...And Balm is an essential item in my life.
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#27 mediuse

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 01:40 AM

I saw something in my email that you said about using the pulp repeatedly. If there is or was some way you could measure or fully determine the strength of each batch, that would be excellent.
It would clarify the medical need for relief, in the same manner that some need half and aspirin and others need four aspirin...
When you bottle the product or however it is stored, it can have the percentage and be a more effective medicine..
So, hope that makes sense...
Same principle as heavy, medium, light..etc.


Just thinking on this as I re read the thread...@ the moment, without chemistry knowledge and hardware {I'm working on an 'everywoman solution...gimme time!;)}, the best one could do @the moment is use the same principles applied to canna-oil.

#1 you judge the product going in...with canna-oil it's the buds...their quality, the strain-dependent thc etc...component, and the quantity/ratio's. With canna-root-oil {from which you make the balm...though still perfect as a massage oil or a cloth poultice} you judge the quality of the roots...[my research indicates the 'hairy' roots contain most of the alkaloids we seek]... the quality of presentation [roots from a hydro setup are clean...you would have to clean roots from soil...not th@ hard to do]...the strain...as yet unknown about any strain dependent differences in cannabis root alkaloids, but there has to be some variance of type or quantity of alkaloids between the strains...and the quantity/ratio's.
...we start this list from scratch! ;)

#2 you prepare the product...ideally you would grind the bud or roots to a reasonably fine grade or you would make a paste of them [you could grind them in a blender or mortar and pestle with either a little water or a little oil to make a paste th@ you then put in the oil/water mixture...or try it with fresh buds or fresh roots...let us know how it turns out!{actually, a paste like this could be stored in the freezer, ready to be pulled out when needed...or stored in a jar in a warm place to 'improve'}]

#3 you put the prepared buds or roots in a mix of oil and water and bring it to a roiling boil, then lower it to a simmer....if you're using a slow cooker, just turn it on high. [remember to top up the water...it will evaporate over time]

#3a...repeat process with cannabis product in multiple batches reusing until all you want is now in the oil...

#4 combine these batches of oil to homogenize it and make it all the same strength.

#5 test small quantities until you can judge the dosage.

{ a tip I've learned when making balm...once you've strained all the matter from the oil/water mix, gently heat it and dissolve the bee's wax into the mixture, being sure to stir it well...then let it cool to room temp...depending on how much wax you put in, the oil will now be somewhere between an oily gel to a semi-sold slab...remove and drain!:)}

muA

Please, everyone feel free to post your own info if you come across something...throw suggestions out...or just plain contradict me if you feel I'm incorrect...or just plain wrong!

Experience making balms and using natural cures is wh@ I lack...but I'm trying to learn and if some others can benefit from my research by posting it here, great!....but if you have exp th@ agree's with/contradicts me...please post it.:)

This thread is not my thread...it is our thread:)


muA

Edited by medi-useA, 23 March 2010 - 12:07 PM.

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#28 mediuse

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 06:58 AM

Just thinking on this as I re read the thread...@ the moment, without chemistry knowledge and hardware {I'm working on an 'everywoman solution...gimme time!:)}, the best one could do @the moment is use the same principles applied to canna-oil.

#1 you judge the product going in...with canna-oil it's the buds...their quality, the strain-dependent thc etc...component, and the quantity/ratio's. With canna-root-oil {from which you make the balm...though still perfect as a massage oil or a cloth poultice} you judge the quality of the roots...[my research indicates the 'hairy' roots contain most of the alkaloids we seek]... the quality of presentation [roots from a hydro setup are clean...you would have to clean roots from soil...not th@ hard to do]...the strain...as yet unknown about any strain dependent differences in cannabis root alkaloids, but there has to be some variance of type or quantity of alkaloids between the strains...and the quantity/ratio's.
...we start this list from scratch! -_-

#2 you prepare the product...ideally you would grind the bud or roots to a reasonably fine grade or you would make a paste of them [you could grind them in a blender or mortar and pestle with either a little water or a little oil to make a paste th@ you then put in the oil/water mixture...or try it with fresh buds or fresh roots...let us know how it turns out!{actually, a paste like this could be stored in the freezer, ready to be pulled out when needed...or stored in a jar in a warm place to 'improve'}]

#3 you put the prepared buds or roots in a mix of oil and water and bring it to a roiling boil, then lower it to a simmer....if you're using a slow cooker, just turn it on high. [remember to top up the water...it will evaporate over time]

#3a...repeat process with cannabis product in multiple batches reusing until all you want is now in the oil...

#4 combine these batches of oil to homogenize it and make it all the same strength.

#5 test small quantities until you can judge the dosage.

{ a tip I've learned when making balm...once you've strained all the matter from the oil/water mix, gently heat it and dissolve the bee's wax into the mixture, being sure to stir it well...then let it cool to room temp...depending on how much wax you put in, the oil will now be somewhere between an oily gel to a semi-sold slab...remove and drain!:)}

muA

Please, everyone feel free to post your own info if you come across something...throw suggestions out...or just plain contradict me if you feel I'm incorrect...or just plain wrong!

Experience making balms and using natural cures is wh@ I lack...but I'm trying to learn and if some others can benefit from my research by posting it here, great!....but if you have exp th@ agree's with/contradicts me...please post it.:)

This thread is not my thread...it is our thread:)


muA


Note to all!
@this moment in time I have just become how aware I am of my IGNORANCE concerning HEMP OIL and it's benefits.
I looked @all the threads dedicated to it and was blown away! I have SOME READING TO DO! hehehehe:)

Good thing I've not got much else to do!:)

I need to factor hemp oil into the root-oil equation!

It seems hemp oil also has benefits...so I'm gonna hafta lookintoit! hehehehe:)

muA
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#29 Itinkso

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:04 AM

oh my medi....you weren't aware of hemp oil!!!...LOL!!!....i'll look forward to hearing your thoughts!!!
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#30 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 12:40 PM

I learn something new every single day on here.....!!!
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#31 mediuse

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:26 PM

AND it looks to me as if I just double posted! :) ha! Have just hopped out of a really hot bath and am lobster red @the moment....When my colour improves I'm gonna be trying my second batch of balm and see wh@ the strength is like....and I have a good test for it too...I've had 5 dislocated shoulders in 2 days :( ...left twice and the right three times... Ever tried getting out of bed with both shoulders dislocated?...I don't recommend it... The bummer of it is, when I put them back in I pinched a nerve in my neck....it's taken 4x3paper joints and 4 'lobster' baths to get it 95% back to normal....hoping the balm kicks in th@ last 5% :) muA
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#32 mediuse

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 01:33 AM

Here's a pic of my first Cannabis-Root-Balm... Attached File  balm2 - Copy.jpg   26.44KB   105 downloads Firstly I made a bud leaf and stem balm...it helped somewh@ ...but I then re-boiled it with Roots in the mix... The container is about 500ml...2 cups of oil and some bee's wax went into making the balm. I now have it stored in a sealable tupperware container th@ is @least 40 years old!:fishing:...but it seals better than a modern container!...sure made to last. Here's a pic of the rootmass I used for the balm before I dried it. Attached File  bucketroots.jpg   57.42KB   118 downloads muA

Edited by medi-useA, 10 August 2010 - 08:05 PM.

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#33 mediuse

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:46 PM

I have a Great Job Award!... and CaliWildViolet420 to thank for it...Thanks :) ...a surprise out of the blue th@ I was not even aware of!
hehehe

Though with all the info I've been skimming on the net researching this and other things, I kinda feel like the little kid who points out th@ the Emperor has no clothes! shakehands.gif

I've been using the balm I made and it has great soothing effect when I use it...but I have had to limit my use of it until I can make sufficient to use daily...@ the moment I save it for things like osteo-arthritic-attacks of extreme wracking pain...Thankfully they do not come often but winter is the worst and when they hit they are quite literally crippling for days...I've been able to function during 2 of these episodes th@ I used the balm...so I'm assured it works for me.
So I'm keeping it for then...or if I have some other prob th@ requires it...I have a half cup in the fridge and a half cup in the freezer.

On another note...to those pet lovers out there with old, creaky loved ones...

I have a tiny black pug faced Shit-Tzu...you know the type...Big brown googly eyes protruding from a tennis ball sized head, tiny jaw and a flat squashed up nose...a thick, muscled neck leading down to stubby little front legs and the rest of her, from the shoulders down to her 'question mark' tail, and greyhound-like rear end, is simply a counter-balance to keep her from toppling foreward...

We've had this little darling 9 years...she was 4.5 years old when we 'inherited' her {3 of my last 4 dogs have been 'inherited':)}...and was living on one sausage a day...she was tiny, almost feral...
I 'converted' her by massaging her neck and shoulders, where the brunt of the muscular stress was...she loved it, and soon began seeking me out to get her massage.
Now she is totally 'one of the pack' and is the Matriarch...but @ 13.5 years, she is getting old...and now having hip problems.

She has great difficulty with her flea like jumping on to the lounge or bed now.

In the last month I have used this balm on her hips and thighs once{the first time...messy} and on just the inside of her thighs, where there is no hair {much cleaner application} and stomach 2 times....

She is moving much better and jumping again, something she had quit doing months ago...
She is even coming up to me and raising onto her rear legs for minutes @ a time to get pats and attention.

So th@ is one bit of evidence as I see it...

Another is th@ she is extremely fussy and fastidious.
She HATES creams rubbed onto her...she writhes and wriggles and when done will attempt to remove it...
About three mins into the application come-massage the first time I put this on her hips, she stopped moving and calmed down, taking a few deep breaths and releasing them, something she does as she relaxes.
The following 2 applications involved no 'find the puppy' games....she lay there as I came up to her with the balm, she even rolled over and raised her rear leg for me to get to her thigh...a sign of absolute trust from this dog.
I stand her up to massage it into her thighs and she raises her rear legs one @ a time to let me do so...another sign of trust and compliance.

This last time, she actually perked up when she saw me get the balm out of the fridge.

So this sooths my fears th@ I may be imagining things concerning it's effects.

I've also used it with success on the gentleman I am carer for, for a long term recurring back/shoulder problem...with remarkable success.

Anyone else made this?...

I know I'm gonna refine the technique and method of making this...and I think for pet applications, a massage oil would be better suited.

...oh, and as to the gibbering post, droning on and on... wall.gif....canna-milk!

muA
Thanks Calli!
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#34 jangel

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:55 PM

No you are not droning on at all! I have often wondered how this would work on our 4 footed kids. I have 5 dogs and 2 cats, as well as 3 birds. This is wonderful information. One thing: Anything that is applied topically is absorbed into the system. I beleive even if you do not say this can not be eaten, it has a world of possiblitlity in it to help those in pain. I would love to see how this adds to healing hemp oil and works for killing pain, internally. I will try and save my roots now, but I am a dirt grower so will never have the roots you show above...good goin'! You are indeed a star! Great post! When I try this I will add to this. Peace

Edited by jangel, 14 July 2010 - 10:54 AM.

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#35 mediuse

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:47 PM

No you are not droning on at all! I have often wondered how this would work on our 4 footed kids. I have 5 dogs and 2 cats, as well as 3 birds. This is wonderful information.

One thing: Anything that is applied topically is absorbed into the system. I beleive even if you do not say this can not be eaten, it has a world of possiblitlity in it to help those in pain. I would love to see how this adds to healing hemp oil and works for killing pain, internally. I will try and save my roots now, but I am a dirt grower so will never have the roots you show above...good goin' girl!

You are indeed a star! Great post! When I try this I will add to this.

Peace


I cannot recommend eating it...mainly because I have no info of it's possible effects, though I HAVE seen it mentioned in herbal remedies th@ were for consumption.

But because I do not know how the alkaloids will act on the internal system I cannot recommend consuming it...but th@ is not to say I am AGAINST it's consumption...I am just aware of how much I DO NOT KNOW:)

I'm going to experiment with powdering dried cannabis root and adding it to the dogfood.
This might be a good all round tonic for older 'family' members:)

It's worth putting out the word to other growers to save the rootballs for you if you know of any...it's waste product to those who grow hydro commercially.

Are there any cannabis clubs you could put a few wanted notices up?..perhaps they could ask their growers to donate them?

Who knows, even if it becomes another form of revenue for these clubs, it might make available something th@ is NEEDED...


muA
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#36 jangel

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:56 PM

Only problem with adding dried roots is that many herb by products need heat to be activated. they need carboxilizing in order to be changed into cbd's that can be used. Not sure if just drieing and grinding, without heating, whether it would work. Let me know if you check this out.
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#37 mediuse

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:02 PM

I will check it out...am unsure if alkaloids need decarboxilation...Thanks for pointing it out. muA
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#38 robotdinosaur

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:16 PM

This is great information - the only thing that worries me is the roots have been sitting in synthetic nutrients all of their lives. Has anyone given thought to or mentioned this? (perhaps I missed it) Even the Humboldt that I use is organic EXCEPT for the base nutrients of A & B. As someone who is pretty severely chemically sensitive, I couldn't/wouldn't want to put chemical fertilizer residues on my skin.
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#39 jangel

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:38 PM

Yes, but if grown correctly, shouldn't they be flushed at the end of the cycle? My grows are pretty organic. I think just like with onions and other veggies, you don't think of what has been fed into them, but that too is very valid robot. I would think organic would be the way to go. and we are all just made of different chemicals reconfigured into our form...whatever we are. Peace
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#40 mediuse

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 12:52 AM

I had not considered th@ ...Thanks. More to consider! shakehands.gif

muA

Edited by mediuseA , 19 April 2012 - 09:52 AM.

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#41 Desert Woman

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 07:52 AM

im gonna try this shakehands.gif you just can't imagine the hope this gives me. thank you so much for sharing!

iconchef.gif


I've been trying to get the most out of my cannabis plant...I cure and smoke the buds...I make canna-oil from the leaves, stems and popcorn buds {and buds when I can spare them!}...I'm experimenting with rhetting the thicker branches and stems to make my own paper...and th@ left me with the roots.

Last harvest I made some canna balm with leaf stem and popcorn buds...whilst it did help with minor abrasions and burns, it seemed pretty useless when it came to muscles, sinew, bone and ligament.

This harvest I decided to make my balm with the dried rootmass of 1 skunkmix plant and the freshly harvested rootmass of a haze plant.

I tore these up into smallish pieces...Ideally I would have ground them in a blender...but I don't have one!drums.gif...I put the torn up rootmass and 2 cups of oil into a slow cooker with 6 cups of water.
The reason I put 3-1 water-oil is this way I can keep it @ a roiling boil without deepfrying the roots.

I leave the cooker on 12-14 hours, checking it to top up the water as it evaporates {I put the lid on but it still does evaporate} and @ the end I pull the root pulp out and strain the lot through a clean giant sized chux cloth {pre-washed} and put it in the freezer to...freeze:cool:

The root pulp can be put back into the cooker with some more water to boil a few more hours...do not put more oil in...the purpose of this second 'cook' is to release the remaining oil and alkaloids from the roots.
When done, strain and freeze like the first batch...

Depending on if you squeezed out the root pulp the first batch, you might get up to the same amount of oil from the second batch you 'cook'.

When the water has frozen, pour off the oil from both batches into a pot and heat gently on the stove...dissolve some bee's wax into the oil...a piece half the size of your thumb would be enough to make 2 or more cups of balm...add small pieces and dissolve it into the oil....test it every now and then to see how thick it is.
With a little practice you can get the consistency you want to make it spreadable @room temp.

Scent can be added now if you want it aromatic...or there are other ingredients you can add and experiment with.
My next batch of this balm with also have cinnamon bark, oregano, basil 'cooked' with the roots in oil to, hopefully, make a better balm!
One could also throw in a Brugmansia flower or two to help with spasticity.

Rubbing this balm into my joints is like no pain medicine I've had before.
It doesn't make the pain bearable, nor does it lessen it, it seems to stop it entirely...not numbing it....making it like it was never there!
This is a new experience in pain relief for me.
The spasticity and stiffness I normally experience is lessened to the point of indifference...and I've only been using this a week!

The reason this works so well is the alkaloids in the roots.

If you want to explore this further google cannabis+root+alkaloid+balm and you will have some reading ahead!dancegif hehehe

If you grow...you have roots...if you have these roots, make the balm....even if YOU don't need it...someone will...a parent/grandparent/loved one...

I am pretty sure powdered roots would get through in the mail....perhaps someone could start a 'rootbank' and send their unwanted roots to those who could use them.

My next area of research is going to be into which strains have the best roots for this balm:)

Hope this helps...anyone who tries this, please chime in!

muA


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#42 Itinkso

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:00 AM

im gonna try this drums.gif you just can't imagine the hope this gives me. thank you so much for sharing!

iconchef.gif


you must have mega root balls left over DW...this would be awesome for you....without having to detract from your patients!!!shakehands.gif
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#43 Desert Woman

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:19 AM

most of them have been chopped up into mulch for outdoor holes, but there will certainly be no problem getting a hold of more. our next harvest will bring a plethora of them! Im a bit, ill go out back and see what i can find. do you think trim will work as well? i can't see why not..

you must have mega root balls left over DW...this would be awesome for you....without having to detract from your patients!!!shakehands.gif






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#44 Itinkso

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:23 AM

most of them have been chopped up into mulch for outdoor holes, but there will certainly be no problem getting a hold of more. our next harvest will bring a plethora of them! Im a bit, ill go out back and see what i can find. do you think trim will work as well? i can't see why not..


all of it DW...whatever you can get your hands on...it all has healing properties!!....even the roots now we see!!!
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#45 jangel

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:27 AM

The stems and stocks as well DW, they are really high in cbd's and pain releiving properties.
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#46 Desert Woman

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:04 AM

all of it DW...whatever you can get your hands on...it all has healing properties!!....even the roots now we see!!!


The stems and stocks as well DW, they are really high in cbd's and pain releiving properties.


now when i chop a plant, i can use all of her; like the Native Americans did with the buffalo! very cool!
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#47 Graywolf

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:55 AM

Thank you for the good info on root extraction. It is on my list of things to try, and I have been saving root stock for the last six months to do so. I've already picked up a McCulloh electric garden chipper shredder and have the use of a Romanian hammer mill, which we have been using to reduce stems for extraction. They should do an excellent job of reducing root stock as well. As a bonus, the hammer mill also produces an extremely soft fiber for Joe's hemp paper making experiments, but that is another story. I will post the root extraction results as available. GW

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#48 Desert Woman

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 11:16 AM

nifty!
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#49 mediuse

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 11:30 AM

I'm quite eager to try making a root-paste and trying it as a warm poultice on my joints in winter...I might even try juicing fresh roots and having a soak in a hot bath with root-juice...The idea's th@ hit me as to possible uses are suprising. I'm sure just making a mush of roots in a blender and mixing with heated vasolene and using topically will work, but have yet to try it... oooh, the possibilities!drums.gif muA
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#50 Graywolf

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 01:40 PM

I usually use coconut oil as the menstruum for my topical, because of its rapid penetration and lack of messy residue. GW
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