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WASHINGTON the battle begins


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#26 DonJones

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 03:32 PM

Iso,

I will have to reread the statute it self to be sure, but if I remember correctly, the law doesn't require the provider to produce anything more than the patient/provider agreement, which there is no required format for. If there is no specified frormat for the patient/provider agreement, then it can be in any ofrmat and on any kind of paper, original or photocopy.

If one wanted to be really safe, they could just make at least 2 originals of the agreement and then sign all of them as originals.

Here is the link to the entire medical Marijuana law as currently written. To know what the law will be when, or if, the Governor signs SB-5798, you would need to apply the changes in the bill to the exisiting law.

http://apps.leg.wa.g...9.51A&full=true

and for the convenience of the readers here is the link again for the bill as passed and forwarded to the Governor.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil.../5798-S.PL.pdf


Because there is NO current case law, if you become familiar with and understand the current law you will know as much about the law as any LEO or judge. If you do the same to the combination of the current law and the bill, then you will be better informed than 99% of the lawyers, judges and LEOs, and certainly than the great majorityof the medical marijuana patients and/or providers.

Doesn't it feel good to be a "stoner" and yet smarter than 99% of the LEOs, judges and lawyers, at least about medical marijuana in the State of Washington?


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#27 Aint easy bein Geezy

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 03:51 PM

hey what's up guys i'm new to the site and so far am impressed with all the local talk floating on this site. I'm in spokane and am going to be the provider for a patient, but i'm not sure on what are the dos and don'ts. Here's a ? for ya, can a provider provide for a patient with the plants the provider is tending to in the patients own home? Could the patient still grow if on section 8? Do we have to tell the land lord? does the shcool zone matter? Do her kids present a risk by being in the same residence? I've looked up and googled my but off and can't find the answers to these ?'s, any help would be deeply appreciated. P.S. It almost seems like it would be worth it to just stay under the radar, as in illegal.

#28 Aint easy bein Geezy

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 03:56 PM

bumpity bump

#29 I8ntLucky_UR

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 03:58 PM

Give the post a few minutes my friend many will help with your questions.

#30 Aint easy bein Geezy

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:00 PM

for shor i just noticed the similarity between this site and many others so I figured bumping is a cure all.chimplaughing.gif
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#31 I8ntLucky_UR

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:05 PM

for shor i just noticed the similarity between this site and many others so I figured bumping is a cure all.chimplaughing.gif


Maybe the next day..... But this will work. LOL It has been a busy thread so no worries.

#32 DonJones

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 05:45 PM

algeezy509,

Welcome!

Before I adress your questions, have you signed the I-1068 petition and called Governor Gregoire @ 360 -902-4111 to ask her to sign SB 5798 expanding the list of healthcare provideers that can write recommendations?

If not, PLEASE DO SO as soon as possible.

As to your questions, I prefer not to try to give legal advice that is that detailed without a whole lot more information, and even then it is based on reading and understanding hte law, not on expertise as an attorney. If you want to PM me then we dcan discuss things and I can tell you what I think I'd do.

Basically, the medical marijuana law does NOT effect any contractual relaitonship between a landlord and tenant, regardless of whether it is private or Section 8. Likewise it really doesn't speifically mention the school zone thing, but personally I owuld think that so long as everything else was incompliance with RCW.69.51A, the school zone thing would NOT apply for state purposes. However, if they decide to uswe the federal law for a school zone you would be screwed but the odds of that happening just because a patientand/or provideer were legally growing inside of their home are pretty slim.

As to the question of the childrenbeing in the home, CPS is a law to themselves and they do as they please. However, I do know of patients whose familyis under CPS supervision and so long as the hcildren aren'tusingit, don't haveaccess to it and there isn't a lot of traffic because of it or there is no dealing going on, the specific CPS workers handling their cases haven't raised any issues. I even know of one case,one social connection removed form me, where a man and his 17 year old son were both busted for dealing ot minors from within their home, which was also a joint grow site,but the mother wasn't arrestedand even though CPS had been involved with the family for a long time, CPS didn't get involved in the growing issue. I still haven't heard for sure what their approach was to the father and 17 yeaqr old getting arrested for dealing with the other children present.

As to the provider helping the patient grow in the patient's home, at least I thinkk that was the home you were refering to, where the growing is done has nothing to do with the patient/provider relationship. Since the law provides that assisting a patient or a provider is not grounds for conspiring to abeting manufacturing MJ, There isn't really any reason for you to be a provider, unless you are going to be transporting it for the patient.

IF -- I REPEAT IF YOU GET CAUGHT TRNASPORTING AND THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT IS FOR YOUR PATIENT OR SELLING TO ANYONE YOU ARE UP A CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE! Don't expect any support from the MMJ community if you get caught using arecommendation or a provider agreement to try to cover an illegal operation. Also, if you get caught smoking or otherwise using your patient's MMJ, you will be prosecuted for stealing medication in additon to the MJ charges, and that is way more serious than the MJ charges will be. The courts seem to be coming down harder on people trying ti hide behind recommendations than the people that just take their chances. I do NOT mean to imply that you are doing that, it is just that it sounds highly unusual to be asking about the activities you're describing.

I hope that you are legitimate and will follow up on this because we all want to help MMJ patients and/or providers to do everything that they can legally do to alieviate suffering and avoid prescription drugs.

#33 Aint easy bein Geezy

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 06:49 PM

nothing i'm doing here is illegal I just Don't want to be another case on the tv if you know what I mean. I second I'm not sure why you think it's odd to be asking the ?s I asked, there no activities as you put, (btw you sorta sound like a cop just sayin) going on that's why i'm asking you how to take the right approach with all the se other ellements involved catch my drift, I've read a few of your posts about people hiding behind their rec. Well guess what the people who do that are just trying not to catch a case, it's pretty selfish of you to say people as a = deserve the same privellages when it come to marijuana. there needs to be no (MEDICAL) to it and just let those who self med do so. sorry not to get rhiled up but I hear people all the time knock people for trying to get a leg up on the po po, the spd is no help around here if you don't live here then you wouldn't know, but I've had people breaking in to my old house and thrashing it looking for my invisible pile of money, but because the person recieved mail there once there was nothing the police would do, took three times and her threatening the pigs to get them to put a warrant out for her then they picked her up. Just a firm example for ya, until it's 100 percent legal people will try to avoid getting in trouble. that's just the way it is. I'm not in their shoes, but I don't believe what they do is wrong as long as they are not supplying middle schoolers. just my opinion. no probs just peace.

#34 DonJones

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 11:16 PM

The reason I sound like a cop is probably because I was one in the service and have a respect for the job they do, if not always the way they do it or the people doing it. Also, my legal understanding has come from having to deal with cases where cops that I thought were my friends turned on me and even attempted to set me up.

I was the first citizen to argue and appeal before the Washington Court of Appeals while also being represented by an attorney. They dismissed the attorney's agreument but overturned my conviction on the basis of my arguement. I'm 3 susccessful appeals out of 4 and in every case it was my arguementr that prevailed NOT the attorney's arguement. The fourth case really wasn't a loss, the problem was the Court Of Appeals had no jurisdiction over thematter. The matter was the result of listening to my attorney when he talked me into a plea bargain instead of going to trial andhten failed to follow through on his promise that the conviction would go away after I finished the 18 months probation.

I know exactly what you mean about the SPD being worthless and lying about what the law really provides just to keep from having to do something that they don't want to bother with. That BS about the receipt of mail giving you the same rights in my home is a great example. There is absolutely NO legal basis for that and if they decide they want you out, then they all of a sudden change their story.

On the other hand I have had some very fair good officers respond ot DV complaints wher they float told the person who had been living in my home that they were leaving and staying gone, one way or another.

I agree that recreational and medical use should both be legal. However, IF someone is going to commit a crime, whether the law is just or not, then they should be ready to man up and do the time if they get caught instead of trying to hide behind medical MJ and endangering the ability of everyone with a legitimate medical need to use MMJ. I also know from personal observaton and conversations off the record that many local officers feel that regardless of whether or not you are legal or not, if you stay low key, do NOT involve minors, they figure that every ounce or even pund that you grow and distribute locally is just that much less pot that organized crime and/or the forgien cartels get to deal and that the organized crime/cartels are the realthreat to our society.

I personally find it more selfish to endanger o0ther people's rights to use MMJ just to try to skate on what you know is a criminal activity than to say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the crime." But that is just my opinion. I also find it odd that you would present this attitude in a public post and then be nice and friendly in a PM about the same subject.

Your underlying situation is you just plainold don't understand the law, probably because you have never even read it, or you owuldn't be asking about your ability to act as aprovider by helping th epatient grow in her own home. The law is veryu explicit that you can't be convicted for conspiracy or abetting simply by being present where MMJ is being used or grwon. That strongly suggests that anyone can help me with my grow operation so long as the plants and/or prepared MJ remain in my possession under my control.

The best I can tell you about a provider helping a patient grow in her own home is that I do NOT worry about being a provider to a patient if I just go into their grow area and assist or advise trhem in their growing activities.

As to your questions about the school zone I tried to explain it the best that I can. Ther is NO case law or specific provisions regarding the conflict between the school zone and the MMJ patient living and growing within the school zone. Likewise ther are no specific provisions regarding the school zone versus your rights to legally possess a firearm in your home, or to legally carry it for self defense,BUT in that matter ther is case law establishing that our legal activities do not become illegal simply because we happen ot live inside the No Drug, No Gun school zone. If you really want ot find out, just get yourself busted and push it through the courts and establish case law, called precedent, to clearify it one way or the other.

AS to growing in Section 8 housing, I thouhgt I made it clear that NOTHING in the MMJ laws address any contractual relationship regarding landlord/tenant contracts rgardless of whether it is private housing or public housing. Once again, if you really want to find out just get busted and see what the courts say.

As to the issue of your patient risking having her children taken away, CPS is a law unto themselves and they do as they damn well please on a case by case basis. I related the story about the family who had a 17 year old and the father arrested and the other children allowed to remain in the home and the 17 year old to return home in his mother's custody to illustrate thatit may or may not put her children at risk.

If you are unsatisfied with my answers, go to hte links I posted, read and study the law for yourself and make your own decisions. Utlimately that is what an atorney will tell you is "I have given you my opinion and now you have to decide for yourself what youare going to do."

Many many years agoas a very young man I was taught to NEVER ask a question if I couldn't accept answer that I didn't like. That was very good advice.

Having lived here in Spokane and having the opinions about our local polce upper management that you have expressed here, I am very surprised that you would not understand my being suspicious about your questions and the way they were put.

I sincerely wish you and your patient both the best outcomes in this mess. If you really believe that there should be "No Medical" to it, then get involved in the effort to get enough signature from registered voters to get I-1068 on the November ballot and then enough yes votes to pass it and remove marijuanafrom the STATE list of controlled substances and theyby legalize the manufacturing, distributing, posssession and use of marijuana under state law.

This applies to every resident of Washingotn State and if you are already involved, congratulations and please econtinue with you involvement.

PS: My family has paid our dues under the foolish MJ laws here in Washington State. My oldest son is currently serving a year and a day for delivery and so long as he is under the supervision of the Department of Corections he can NOT use MJ even though he has a recommendation. Nor can he visit my home because I have very legal grow operation that is operated behind closed and LOCKED doors. But we do NOT whine or cry about it because he knew the chance he took by making the sale to what turned out to be a DEA agent and their confidential informant. My home was under 24/7 serveillance for several months and it was only once I went ot hte regional task force with copies of our recommendations and invited them to inspect our operation that DEA backe doff. I know that the SPD still keeps an eye on us and has our home listed as alegal MJ grow operation. But with 4 recommendations in the immediate family plus serving as providers for one patient each, they realize that our legal plant count is 120 plants and our posession limit of prepared MJ is 192 ounces, which means before they can find us out of bounds, we will be under federal jurisdiction, so they pretty well leave us alone. My Military Police background and my track record in court undoubtedly play role. My having managed have been employed by one of the local Hell's Angelsleaders without getting involved in club business during a fialed murder investigation and trial of a member, a failedwitness and presecutor intimidation investigation and trial of several local club officers and a successful RICO investigation and conviciton of the local chaper president and several other members form all around th West might help too.

So no I'm not a goody two shoes, but just an individual savey enough to learn the limits of the legal activities in a given field and never step over that line. That has also made me very suspicious of unusual questions, but fortunately I have manged to avoid becoming paranoid and living in fear of a conspiracy against me.

I don't judge you because you have different beliefs, but if my belief that we must all take responsiblity for our actions and the possible effectthey may have on others, then I guess I'm selfish in not wanting someone else's trying to hide behind MMJ and jeapordizing all of our abilities to function within the laws, vague and unjustand they are.
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#35 hinduhippy

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 12:36 AM

Thats so funny, I was just randomly thinking today that you were a cop.

Edited by hinduhippy, 13 March 2010 - 12:41 AM.


#36 DonJones

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 03:57 AM

hinduhippy,

Not in many a year, but it obviously had strong influence on my out look on life. I think one of the biggest influences was watching the way people avoided duty assignments by hiding behind issues like racial discrimination when it fact they were being treated the way they were because of their own actions and attitudes while their fellow minorities from the same groups who just accepted the bad with the good were treated exactly the same as the majorities. The deadbeat minorities could never see where they were treated the same way as deadbeat majority troops and often even more favorably because of officer's fear of being labeled racist. Discipline amongst the troops, both of minorities and majorities, was nearly non-existent because of politically correctness. I served with troops that would decide to abandon their guard posts, leave their loaded weapons unattended, use loaded M-16 full automatic rifles to dig snow caves and a lot worse only to cry foul when they were caught and punished claiming it was because they were minorities, alcoholics, poor uneducated and anyother excuse you could think of instead of admitting that it was because they were screw ups. And what was worse, they were often relieved of duty and let do absolutely nothing for months while their peers who accepted the job they had sworn to do worked extra hours in dangerous and adverse conditions to make up for the under manning that could not be corrected because these screw ups had to be carried on the books until they were either transferred or discharged so on paper we were manned at 100% of our authorized strength. So I examined th eoptions and managed to get cross-trained into data processing and no long had ot worry about some idiot swing a loaded M-16 with a full magazine and the safety off around a crowded room full of people.

I think that is were my lack of use for people who invent excuses so they can hide behind programs developed for persons who really need help came from. Like the people who go to their doctor a few times complaining about debilitating pain that narcotics don't control, while they are playing contact sports, rock climbing, boxing and so on in their leisure so that they can document uncontrolled pain and get a medical marijuana recommendations to attempt to legalize their on going criminal growing and dealing activities, when they don't even use MJ themselves. I have absolutely no sympathy for those kind of cowards, especially when I see patient after patient who have legitimate needs for MMJ but can't legally get or use it because their attneidng health care professionals will cut them off from needed meds the minute they findout that the patient is using MMJ legally. The worst part about it s often those same health care providers refuse to release the patient so that he/she can transfer to another provider with a more enlightened policy.

Incidentally we just learned that the 2 men busted with the 105 plants a couple of days ago had fake recommendations and were not in fact even remotely medical MJ patients or providers.

Once again I urge everyone to get involved it getting I-1068 on the ballot and passed! It is about time that we quit wasting millions upon millions of dollars and precious manpower on investigating, prosecuting and punishing minor marijuana violations.

I do NOT even pretend to accept or support our screwed up laws, but I will always support the silent majority of LEOs, especially at the patrol levels, who just do their jobs to the best of their ability without prejudice or personal agendas. On the other hand I will continue to hate the few that use their positions to attempt to impose their opinions or beliefs on others, regardless of whether they are LEOs or sanitation workers.

Please forgive my rambling and any spelling errors that I missed in spite of spell checking and rereading before I posted. It's late and I need to get to bed.
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#37 Aint easy bein Geezy

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:51 AM

The reason I sound like a cop is probably because I was one in the service and have a respect for the job they do, if not always the way they do it or the people doing it. Also, my legal understanding has come from having to deal with cases where cops that I thought were my friends turned on me and even attempted to set me up.

I was the first citizen to argue and appeal before the Washington Court of Appeals while also being represented by an attorney. They dismissed the attorney's agreument but overturned my conviction on the basis of my arguement. I'm 3 susccessful appeals out of 4 and in every case it was my arguementr that prevailed NOT the attorney's arguement. The fourth case really wasn't a loss, the problem was the Court Of Appeals had no jurisdiction over thematter. The matter was the result of listening to my attorney when he talked me into a plea bargain instead of going to trial andhten failed to follow through on his promise that the conviction would go away after I finished the 18 months probation.

I know exactly what you mean about the SPD being worthless and lying about what the law really provides just to keep from having to do something that they don't want to bother with. That BS about the receipt of mail giving you the same rights in my home is a great example. There is absolutely NO legal basis for that and if they decide they want you out, then they all of a sudden change their story.

On the other hand I have had some very fair good officers respond ot DV complaints wher they float told the person who had been living in my home that they were leaving and staying gone, one way or another.

I agree that recreational and medical use should both be legal. However, IF someone is going to commit a crime, whether the law is just or not, then they should be ready to man up and do the time if they get caught instead of trying to hide behind medical MJ and endangering the ability of everyone with a legitimate medical need to use MMJ. I also know from personal observaton and conversations off the record that many local officers feel that regardless of whether or not you are legal or not, if you stay low key, do NOT involve minors, they figure that every ounce or even pund that you grow and distribute locally is just that much less pot that organized crime and/or the forgien cartels get to deal and that the organized crime/cartels are the realthreat to our society.

I personally find it more selfish to endanger o0ther people's rights to use MMJ just to try to skate on what you know is a criminal activity than to say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the crime." But that is just my opinion. I also find it odd that you would present this attitude in a public post and then be nice and friendly in a PM about the same subject.

Your underlying situation is you just plainold don't understand the law, probably because you have never even read it, or you owuldn't be asking about your ability to act as aprovider by helping th epatient grow in her own home. The law is veryu explicit that you can't be convicted for conspiracy or abetting simply by being present where MMJ is being used or grwon. That strongly suggests that anyone can help me with my grow operation so long as the plants and/or prepared MJ remain in my possession under my control.

The best I can tell you about a provider helping a patient grow in her own home is that I do NOT worry about being a provider to a patient if I just go into their grow area and assist or advise trhem in their growing activities.

As to your questions about the school zone I tried to explain it the best that I can. Ther is NO case law or specific provisions regarding the conflict between the school zone and the MMJ patient living and growing within the school zone. Likewise ther are no specific provisions regarding the school zone versus your rights to legally possess a firearm in your home, or to legally carry it for self defense,BUT in that matter ther is case law establishing that our legal activities do not become illegal simply because we happen ot live inside the No Drug, No Gun school zone. If you really want ot find out, just get yourself busted and push it through the courts and establish case law, called precedent, to clearify it one way or the other.

AS to growing in Section 8 housing, I thouhgt I made it clear that NOTHING in the MMJ laws address any contractual relationship regarding landlord/tenant contracts rgardless of whether it is private housing or public housing. Once again, if you really want to find out just get busted and see what the courts say.

As to the issue of your patient risking having her children taken away, CPS is a law unto themselves and they do as they damn well please on a case by case basis. I related the story about the family who had a 17 year old and the father arrested and the other children allowed to remain in the home and the 17 year old to return home in his mother's custody to illustrate thatit may or may not put her children at risk.

If you are unsatisfied with my answers, go to hte links I posted, read and study the law for yourself and make your own decisions. Utlimately that is what an atorney will tell you is "I have given you my opinion and now you have to decide for yourself what youare going to do."

Many many years agoas a very young man I was taught to NEVER ask a question if I couldn't accept answer that I didn't like. That was very good advice.

Having lived here in Spokane and having the opinions about our local polce upper management that you have expressed here, I am very surprised that you would not understand my being suspicious about your questions and the way they were put.

I sincerely wish you and your patient both the best outcomes in this mess. If you really believe that there should be "No Medical" to it, then get involved in the effort to get enough signature from registered voters to get I-1068 on the November ballot and then enough yes votes to pass it and remove marijuanafrom the STATE list of controlled substances and theyby legalize the manufacturing, distributing, posssession and use of marijuana under state law.

This applies to every resident of Washingotn State and if you are already involved, congratulations and please econtinue with you involvement.

PS: My family has paid our dues under the foolish MJ laws here in Washington State. My oldest son is currently serving a year and a day for delivery and so long as he is under the supervision of the Department of Corections he can NOT use MJ even though he has a recommendation. Nor can he visit my home because I have very legal grow operation that is operated behind closed and LOCKED doors. But we do NOT whine or cry about it because he knew the chance he took by making the sale to what turned out to be a DEA agent and their confidential informant. My home was under 24/7 serveillance for several months and it was only once I went ot hte regional task force with copies of our recommendations and invited them to inspect our operation that DEA backe doff. I know that the SPD still keeps an eye on us and has our home listed as alegal MJ grow operation. But with 4 recommendations in the immediate family plus serving as providers for one patient each, they realize that our legal plant count is 120 plants and our posession limit of prepared MJ is 192 ounces, which means before they can find us out of bounds, we will be under federal jurisdiction, so they pretty well leave us alone. My Military Police background and my track record in court undoubtedly play role. My having managed have been employed by one of the local Hell's Angelsleaders without getting involved in club business during a fialed murder investigation and trial of a member, a failedwitness and presecutor intimidation investigation and trial of several local club officers and a successful RICO investigation and conviciton of the local chaper president and several other members form all around th West might help too.

So no I'm not a goody two shoes, but just an individual savey enough to learn the limits of the legal activities in a given field and never step over that line. That has also made me very suspicious of unusual questions, but fortunately I have manged to avoid becoming paranoid and living in fear of a conspiracy against me.

I don't judge you because you have different beliefs, but if my belief that we must all take responsiblity for our actions and the possible effectthey may have on others, then I guess I'm selfish in not wanting someone else's trying to hide behind MMJ and jeapordizing all of our abilities to function within the laws, vague and unjustand they are.

Thanx not trying to be combative just wanted to get you rhiled up to see what you really had to say, and have uncovered your truly biased opinion! Thank you for relaying all this helpful info to me:) peace love and chicken greace.
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#38 theeyetye

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 11:14 AM

This is comforting to catch up on this thread. It's quite refreshing to see not only that my knack for picking an officer (of whatever sort you may have been!) out of a crowd of people has not yet gone by the wayside, and moreover that I was not the only one who had acquired such a suspicion. I guess a better characterization would be that I had considered you to be 'someone with duty training', as the tasks and accountability of that of an MP vary greatly between those of a standard patrolman, Border Patrol, etc. It's pretty hard to tell much more than that through verbatim online.

I feel that I need to insert reference links at this point (lol), but I'll just say that I have a close cousin who is a Border Patrol agent, two high school friends that went on to become sheriffs, and several associates who have military background, and my interactions with all applicable parties has drawn me to my conclusions. While it used to be a point of fear for me, I've learned that most people have less trouble performing duties that may conflict with their own beliefs than I. I don't mean that in a derogatory way to any applicable parties, I mean it more as an uncorrectable flaw of mine. I've quit jobs before because I didn't agree with the ethics of the company, or in another instance how they treated someone else; neither instance having had any direct negative consequence to myself, it's just part of who I am, and it has made my life more difficult before it's ever helped me. My point is, it used to be hard for me to understand that I could sit there and look at pictures with my cousin on his cell phone of 2 tons of MJ he seized last week, and go back and forth with him about how much we both wish we could keep it. I couldn't do that. I would keep it, in as inconspicuous a way as possible, and then quit my job after releasing whoever I had arrested for it. He has to turn it over to the DEA, and watch it get lugged through a locked door only the DEA has keys for to be incinerated. IT was hard to understand that I was the minority in my manners of thinking when it comes to my personal ethics. Don you've actually opened up my mind somewhat in this regard, as it might pertain to LEO anyhow, as I've done a little more research into LEO's opinions on MMJ, prohibition, and related topics, and I stumbled upon this: http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php. It's a group of officers both current and retired who are much less than reserved on their opinions against prohibition. Suffice to say, based on all the other information I had gathered on the topic, I wasn't aware such an organization existed or had reason to exist, but I'm thankful to say that it does, and I think cops like this NEED the FULL support of the 'other dark side' of the community and the argument as a whole. These guys are going out on a limb much thinner than the one many of us stand on to simply have the courage to voice the things they are. They can lose jobs and pensions for saying the things they are. Many Kudos.

Don, thanks for keeping it civil and keeping the conversation alive. I do have a question to end on though, (although I feel like this thread has been officially hijacked at this point); what is your medical scenario and use of MJ? We all know a lot about you here now, except what the site is about. Perhaps you've gone into detail into another thread, who knows, just curious. Good tidings, all.
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#39 DonJones

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 01:22 PM

algeezy509,

Please explain what biased opinion you are talking about so I can get to know myself better.

Also, do you realize that NONE of us is completely unbiased about anything after we hear about it the first time?

#40 DonJones

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:30 PM

theeyetye,


Yes people who have held duty related jobs/positions, especially th epeople who took those duties seriously, have an indelible mind set and usually even a way of carrying themselves. I too have changed professions because of the hipocracy (sic) that I felt in pretrending to go along with the program and what my beliefs actually were. I abandoned law enforcement after less than 3 months on duty in the Air Force because of the irresponsibility and corruption that I found all around me. I cross trained into data processing, a field that I had worked in before enlisting and hated, simply because I knew I was good at it and mostly because it had great reenlistment bonus and the likelihood of being put in the position of dealing with drunk,stoned or high people armed with either weapons or heavy equipment was minimal.

I left the nursing field one quarter away from becoming a RN because of the dichotomy between my desire to help people and make a difference and the reality that the great majority of your time is spent doing unskilled things like changing beds, fetching water or what ever rather than using your knwledge and medical skills to actually help people get well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "what is your medical scenario and use of MJ?". Please be a little clearer and I'll try to answer as much as possible. Although I would hope that it is mostly "idle curiosity" rather than a litmus test about ideology. ( In your case, I am pretty sure that it is just curiosity.) I really get disgusted when people judge a clear statement of fact by the ideology of the speaker. I have learned the hard way that truth is truth and falsehood is falsehood regardless of the source. I have bought total BS because of who told it to me and on the other hand have disregarded some peals of wisdom and truth because I was prejudiced against the source.

I think maybe what you are asking is, what is my medical condition that qualifies me for a recommendation and how do I medicate. Is that correct?

At this point I guess all l I want to say until i know more about your question and the reason for it, is I have a very mild condition in comparison to many other patients and have seen a lot of prejudice both pro and con as regards the medical marijuana issue. It saddens me when I see people that are much more than just friends to me continue to suffer needlessly because of their blind prejudice against any use of marijuana or because of their doctor's blind prejudice. I.E. I have a friend who is a widow and closer to both myself and my better half than my sister is to me, who continues to suffer from advanced fibermyalgia (sic), whose husband finally died of complications of MS, whose son is nearly a quad and wheel chair bound with no use of his legs and limited use of his arms, suffer everyday needlessly because she refuses to even consider using MJ in any form. I am very tempted to make her some MJ goodies and let her eat them for a few days and see if I can show her that it is helpful and isn't going to turn her into a dope fiend, but that runs against one of my deepest biases against administering ANY substance to someone without their knowledge and consent. Even worse is seeing supposedly good sensitive doctors who will instantly refuse to treat a patient any more because they chose to use MJ, even if they aren't being treated for the condition that the MJ is being used for.

As for how do I medicate, usually by eating things containing extracts, like canna butter or oil or hash, or by vaporizing. I try to avoid smoking because I have enough trouble living with second hand smoke and I sure do NOT enjoy taking a toke only to spend 20 or 30 minutes trying to clam down my coughing reflex when I can get the same effects other ways.

Yes, I do have some very strong biases and I try to not hide them. The deepest one is the one I mentioned above, administering something to people without their knowledge or without them having the ability to make informed decisions. I have the deepest disgust for people who deal to minors or mentally challenged people. That disgust turns almost to hatred when we talk aobut "adults" who get children or even pets "high or drunk" because they think it is funny to watch the receipent's action. And so far as people that slip hallucinogens to unknowing victims, well let's just say that I think they are below deserving to live. And that includes "officials" like the CIA and military experiments with LSD and things like it, as well as "hippies" dropping acid on whole crowds without their knowledge.

I have uses MJ recreationally at different periods of my life and abstained at other periods when the risk of getting caught was not worth the benefits of using. My only objection to the recreational use by informed adults has always been that it was illegal and could be very costly, with the exception of people who irresponsibly put their use of drugs of any kind including alcohol above their duty NOT to endanger other, like the armed security guards in the Air Force carrying fully loaded M-16s higher than a kite or drunker than a skunk, or forklift operators loading freight trucks so messed up that they can't even get off of their fo0rklift without stumbling and falling. If that M-16 cooks of on full auto or the load of freight shifts, then people are going to get hurt or killed just because some one thought thye had a unconditional right to be drunk, stoned or high. I say that is BS and is actually at the very least negligent homicide if not out right murder.

Maybe this is the bias that algeezy509 is talking about, the deep seated belief that any person's right to be safe and secure trumps and other person's right to be drunk, stoned or high. If it is, then you're damn right I'm biased and proud of it!

Enough rambling and guessing at what I think you want to know.

Ask plain questions and I will try to answer them plainly.


#41 theeyetye

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:54 PM

Don! There's no litmus testing around here, no interrogations, no prying, no judgements of ideology; all I've found around here is compassion, understanding, thoughtfulness, attentiveness, and consideration from a lot of really knowledgeable, informative, practiced, and loving people. Just in general, people around here are curious about each other because of nothing other than the fact that they care about people. You speak so openly and often about protecting MJ patients, and have included yourself in that group, and it just occurred to me that I didn't know what your condition was. If it's just something your not comfortable talking about, that's perfectly ok too, just know that there is no reason for embarrassment or discretion around here, as I am fairly confident you will only gain compassion. I suffer diagnosed bipolar/depression, insomnia, and severe migraines since I was 12 that occasionally required injections; I'm a smoker, through a variety of methods, preferably pipes, though I wasn't asking that much detail!; and I also was caretaker of medicine for my father, who died of esophogeal cancer last October. . .Either way, I'm happy you have found legal relief of whatever ails you.
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#42 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:59 PM

all I've found around here is compassion, understanding, thoughtfulness, attentiveness, and consideration from a lot of really knowledgeable, informative, practiced, and loving people. "Just in general, people around here are curious about each other because of nothing other than the fact that they care about people.""

Thanks Eye!
The only reason, I have nothing left to say on this thread is because I have watched a progression of brow beating and it is pathetic....
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#43 CaliWildViolet420

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 06:55 PM

Ya know what.....I am just gonna be a b word in here...and make you all LAUGH!! WHY? because I was born in Spokane, Washington, probably before all of you were a dream....at Deaconess Hospital and I am the original Washington Delicious....

Now...that just stopped you all for a moment in your tracks...didn't it...? :-) only good intentions..if I may say so....

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#44 DonJones

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 07:20 PM

My reluctance to discuss my ailments is because in comparisons with my family and friends, I don't really have a NEED for MMJ even though I qualify. Fortunately, I was blessed with a very high threshold of pain and a high tolerance of it too, although that hasn't always been good because I usually don't know when to quit doing something. I am very concerned about the quality/purity of the weed we all use and the only way that I know of to control it is to control it from the time it is planted/cloned until it gets ot the end user. I have seen classified footage of crop dusters spraying fields in Mexico with agent orange and the cartel harvesting it the next day. Having seen foirst hand what skin exposure ot agent orange can do, it terrifies me to think of inhaling it in smoke! I've also seen the results of lacing it with just about any kind of substance you can think of, usually a hallucinogen but sometimes just plain old poisons. My other half, our 2 sons and our daughter have much more debilitating conditions than mine. Mine are mainly chronic pain from osteo artrhitis type conditions, most of which are the direct result of my own foolish and sometime just plain stupid actions and/or decision. I also am a poorly controlled diabetic and at high risk for many complications that would justify the recommendation without the chronic pain form my arthritis. My daughter has some kind of rheumatoid condition, but they can't make up their mind which specific condition she suffers from. My oldst son has busted himself up to the point it is a miracle that he can even walk, One of my extended family type sons in wheel chair bound with very limited use of his arms from a spinal injury. His father died from advance MS and his mother suffers with Fiber myralgia(sic). I have friends who have excruciating pian 24/7 and many others that I don't even want to mention. Hopefully this will explain my reluctance to talk about my qualifying condition. I have learned to function without pain medicines, either prescription or MMJ, so while I am glad I can finally use it semi-legally, I don't really need it. I think I already mention my methods of choice for medicating with MMJ, but maybe not so I'll include it here. I seldom smoke because it triggers long lasting coughing spells. I do occasionally use a home made water pipe, but really prefer to use a vaporizer. My favorite way is to eat things cooked with canna butter or canna oil but best of all cooked with bubble hash. My comment about the litmus test thing was because all to often people tend to judge the truthfulness not by the facts or even the credibility of the speaker but on whether or not he/she passes some ideological litmus test. Hopefully, this hels you understand where I come from and why I get so angry with people breaking the law knowingly and claiming they are being persecuted for being MMJ patients or providers when they get caught. The former ownerof the defunct CHANGE dispensary here in Spokane is a great example of that. Everyone who bothers to check knows there are no such thing as legal dispensaries in Spokane, but Mr. Stevens allowed the media to go through his operation with cameras running and film him "treating" three different "patients in a short time. Then he goes to Oregon an gets caught down there with way too many plants/clones, way too much pot and several thousand dollars in cash. Then he has the nerve to try to justify that to the Oregon LEOs by claiming he is authorized to have all of that because he was getting stock to take back to his dispensary in Washington, yet neither Washington norOregonhaveany kind of recognition of each other's recommendations/prescriptions. Then when he gets busted by the police he starts crying that he is being persecuted because he is trying to help MMJ patients get his over priced meds. That kind of crap endangers all of us in the MMJ community and therefore as far as I'm concerned he deserves whatever he gets, which will probably be nothing because the county prosecutor must file the charges and he is leaving the dispensaries alone so long as they don't become a front for non-medical recreational MJ use.
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#45 Guest_papajoe_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:45 PM

the medicine you get at the dispensaries are usually locally grown so no need to worry about agent orange or any other poisons.Does your family member that has fibro drink diet soda?If so stop,the aspertame is linked to fibro,ms,and cancer.My ex-wife had such a bad case of fibro that she would have to use a cane when she walked,and i couldn't touch her in places because of the pain.She stopped drinking diet soda and within 6 mos she was feeling better.That was 8 years ago and she can'teven tell she ever had it.She has been pain free and she threw away her cane.DO NOT DRINK ANYTHING OR USE ARTIFICIAL SWEETNERS THAT CONTAIN ASPERTAME

#46 phoneman

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 01:48 AM

It's an illegal seizure of legally owned personal property. They would have to prove some violation of the mmj law, ie. too many plants/clones, or too much total weight on the premises, but even then they are on shaky ground. If there is an ambitous/liberal D.A. or A.D.A. in the area, they can probably prosecute the violation, although this would be quite the rarity. Either way, they can be sued for return of the property and seized cannabis, damages incurred as a result of the patients not having their medicine and/or having to resort to less effective and medically approved alternative treatments, and of course, legal fees. There are probably several attorneys in WA state that would take the case without any money down, and I believe NORML will even assist in finding representation. I know they will definitely help with publicizing the issue, if they're not already aware of them.

Complete BS, by the way. If only they would spend more time seizing essentially stolen money from the rich, and less time on seizing legal plants treasured for their medicine. . .or would that be TOO effective?

i dont really beleivethat if you are "rich', you ae a theif. the majority of wealth is in fact, goten by hard work, and sacrifice. i know. whati have, i had to do jsut that. so does this mean if i accfrue more than lsets say.....250k, i am a thief? i never voted for the current pres, or any of his socialist cronies, but i do beleive in the right of privacy. and the right to grow in the privacy of ones house. (or property!). i am from washington. and although i have jsut started a small med grow, i think 15 plants is more than i have smoked in my life...but for a one month supply? lol! amonth for maybe a few city blocks. lol. i am following the law. so i am still wondering what to do with my "excess". compost, i guess. cant give it or sell it. i might get "rich" and then i would be jsut another THEIF....

#47 DonJones

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 02:30 AM

papajoe, The dispensaries where you know the operators as more than just a business contact are most often safe, as are many local dealers. Likewise most locallygrown and sold weed is safe too. I always tried to buy weed that only had one intermediary between me and the grower. That way I had a pretty good idea what had been done to it. Phoneman, I agree with what you said about most wealth is the result of hard work. My father only finished the 8th grade and my mother had huge medical bills nearly all of my life, but Dad managed to leave right at $200,000 when he passed away 6 months after Mom passed on. A lot of people would question that if they didn't know my Dad but everyone who knew him agreed that he got everything he had by working harder than those around him. Good night all.
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#48 phoneman

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:22 AM

how true! in my life, i have been to blame for most ALL trouble i have goten myself into. much of this was opening my mouth,before engaging my brain! to much pot DOES affect memory. lol! so im not one to claim its "TOTALLY" HARMLESS. ANY medication not used correctly, (or in a way that is responsible, or used in the right time and place) can cause unwanted consequences, no? people that act arrogant, defiant, or jsut plain "lippy" should not be surprised when they dont get waht they are striving for! allways be POLITE!! -in ANY situation.

#49 phoneman

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:38 AM

Don! There's no litmus testing around here, no interrogations, no prying, no judgements of ideology; all I've found around here is compassion, understanding, thoughtfulness, attentiveness, and consideration from a lot of really knowledgeable, informative, practiced, and loving people. Just in general, people around here are curious about each other because of nothing other than the fact that they care about people. You speak so openly and often about protecting MJ patients, and have included yourself in that group, and it just occurred to me that I didn't know what your condition was. If it's just something your not comfortable talking about, that's perfectly ok too, just know that there is no reason for embarrassment or discretion around here, as I am fairly confident you will only gain compassion. I suffer diagnosed bipolar/depression, insomnia, and severe migraines since I was 12 that occasionally required injections; I'm a smoker, through a variety of methods, preferably pipes, though I wasn't asking that much detail!; and I also was caretaker of medicine for my father, who died of esophogeal cancer last October. . .Either way, I'm happy you have found legal relief of whatever ails you.

gen129! that should work great,ifyou are ever "visited" by the policia! lol. i love this site allready! well, i have to go out and check my 5 hawain babies! thanks for the continuing entertainment...rob

#50 phoneman

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:44 AM

papajoe,

The dispensaries where you know the operators as more than just a business contact are most often safe, as are many local dealers. Likewise most locallygrown and sold weed is safe too. I always tried to buy weed that only had one intermediary between me and the grower. That way I had a pretty good idea what had been done to it.

Phoneman,

I agree with what you said about most wealth is the result of hard work. My father only finished the 8th grade and my mother had huge medical bills nearly all of my life, but Dad managed to leave right at $200,000 when he passed away 6 months after Mom passed on. A lot of people would question that if they didn't know my Dad but everyone who knew him agreed that he got everything he had by working harder than those around him.

Good night all.

ty! while msot likely the majority of peopleon here are probably very liberal, i am not only a recovering alcoholic (6 yrs), buti am a recovering liberal. i think that if everyone "was 'reasonable", there would really be no need for the differentiation between the two! i love country,flag, armed forces, parents (both deceased), and freinds. i have no place for the moorer/sheehan/sheen types. these people delight in smearing their own country. u know the same one who gave them thier millions. its allways "someone elses" money, that they want taken away! lol! so how the heck do we have a good job, if we get tested? am i only to grow now, and not partake? smhug.gif




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