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Posted 08 March 2010 - 12:21 PM
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Posted 08 March 2010 - 07:27 PM
Posted 08 March 2010 - 07:45 PM
Posted 09 March 2010 - 01:31 PM
Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:05 PM
- jangel, I8ntLucky_UR, wombat83 and 2 others like this
Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:17 PM
First of all, NOTHING that you posted has ANYTHING to do with "The State of Washington"! It has to do with local police departments!
Secondly, either back down or give us more information that can be verified.
Third, what you are describing sound suspiciously like what the Spokane Police Department is doing Only they are actually just seizing the MJ and leaving all of the supplies and equipment alone. In most cases, the MMJ patient isn't even arrested, just someone involved who has been clearly violating the law. Then they usually are NOT relased but forced to post bail.
The reason the cases in Spokane aren't going anywhere is just the opposite of what you allege. It is because the prosecuting attorneys and the State Attorney General are satisfied with the law as it stands and refuse to prosecute Medical cases where there aren't clear criminal activities that have nothing to do with the medical marijuana laws involved too. Unfortunately, the county procesuting attorney has no authority to tell the Spokane Polic eDepartment what they can and can't do, so the Chief, who has a long history or being very out spoken about her opposition to any liberalization of MJ laws, has decided to harass any MJ patient that they can and let some one sue the CITY and get a judge to tell them they have to stop. When you see or hear about "drug task force raids" in the City of Spokane, you need to pay very close attention if it involves medical marijuana. They are actually Spokane City Police Department drug task force raids, not the regional task force that includes the Sheriff's Officers, DEA, Border Patrol/Customs agents and other federal officers.
I personally know of 2 cases that fit that description and both of them were in the City limits and SPD only raids. I personally know of a third one in Airway Heights, and in that one the 17 year old son was dealing pot to his buddies right out of the house where his parents were growing MMJ. The mother wasn't hassled, the 17 year old was arrested and released back to his mother , and the father was arrested and bailed out. If they were interested in screwing with the MMJ patients, they could just as easily arrested the mother too and put the rest of the minor children in foster care, but they didn't. All the police department took was the growing and processed MMJ, not the seeds, equipment or supplies.
Part of the reason for that is the prosecutors don't want potential decisions that might liberalize the laws even more. Also the prosecutors have decided that every ounce of locally grow MJ is one ounce that is taken away from the organized crime cartels networks and they realize that the organized crime rings are where the real threat to the public comes from.
YES, our vague medical marijuana laws need to be clarified, but forget about the big conspiracy in the law enforcement community! Having fought with the State of Washington over even non-criminal issues, I will damn sure guarantee you that IF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON WANTED THE MMJ DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONALLY VAGUE, THE CASE(S) WOULD BE MOVING THROUGH THE COURTS QUICKLY IF THEY HAD ANY HOPE OF PREVAILING! The State Attorney General can marshal more resources to push the issue than all of us patients and activist groups combined, if the so choose.
I apologize for my impatience and lack of tolerance, BUT THESE SCARY CONSPIRACY THEORIES DO MORE DAMAGE TO THE MEDICAL MOVEMENT THAN THE POLICE COULD EVER DO! They frighten other wise sensible people into hiding and being silent instead of speaking out and educating the rest of the citizenry about who MMJ patients are and what we need!
I am sure that you are a well meaning sincere person who believes what you write, but PLEASE DO NOT spread rumors or scary stories unless you are ready to back them up with verifiable facts!
- Sweetheart and enjoythetimespent like this
Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:19 PM
- I8ntLucky_UR, Bueller, wombat83 and 1 other like this
Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:59 PM
- ISO2BWELL, I8ntLucky_UR, CaliWildViolet420 and 3 others like this
Posted 09 March 2010 - 09:47 PM
Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:52 PM
Edited by no1luvsanalien, 10 March 2010 - 07:58 AM.
Posted 10 March 2010 - 01:33 PM
- theeyetye and enjoythetimespent like this
Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:02 PM
Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:22 PM
Shut up? why would you say that? My mistake for want free flow of information and ideas.If it scares someone, good they should be scared . WE THE PEOPLE need to be fully informed.Do you think this is not possible? I am borderline at best. I supply a cancer patient who refuses to get her card , so what? Her response to getting a green card was: f*** that shit!
Bad idea for her NOT to get a card, IMO. With cancer she has every legit
reason to get one. Far better than the chance of some stupid thing happening
and having LEO show up and start arresting people. Cops might ignore the
MMJ if she has a card, but, without they [cops] are in a much tougher position
and could create many troubles for your friend.
Edited by ISO2BWELL, 10 March 2010 - 10:02 PM.
- Sprocket, Sweetheart, theeyetye and 2 others like this
Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:26 PM
The current policy on federal prosecution of medicinal marijuana users.
In Ontario, Canada, we have circumstances quite similar to those in Washington State. Our laws have been in a shambles for decades. Pot possession is quasi-legal for personal use if the quantity is under an oz. If you are caught with it you usually have your stuff taken away but its at the officer's discretion as to what happens after that. Police bust growhouses whenever they are found and even occasionally raid compassion centers, but our courts are a mess. There is no political will here to force the issue and we have languished in legal limbo since Trudeau was Prime Minister.
The point is that we all need better political leadership and we are the only ones who can do anything about that. Direct anger where it can do some good. Write your local politicians and demand change. Vote when you are able. Be kind and support those who need help.
We are all involved in this up to our necks.
Lets smoke a pipe of peace filled with excellent meds and work on a solution to our problems together.
- I8ntLucky_UR, Sweetheart, theeyetye and 3 others like this
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:33 PM
- I8ntLucky_UR, CaliWildViolet420, wombat83 and 2 others like this
Posted 11 March 2010 - 04:55 AM
My point is the statement was made about the "state of Washington" wanting to push cases to court to force a decison that our laws were unconstitutionally vague. Then where appeared to be statements made about the actions of LEOs in "Washington State."
If those activities are happening outside of Spokane City limits by agencies other than the SPD, they are sure keeping it quiet, which kind contradicts the urban ledgend. If I was wanting to force the issue and/or harass the MMJ communittee, I owuld sure do everything with in my power to publicize the raids and let the press ignore the fact that I was NOT prosecuting case! Maybe they think differently, but that would sure be my plan.
That is precisely what SPD has done, take television crews along on high profile busts, arrest the "perpetrators and then go silent. They did that with both the raid on the CHANGE dispensary and the recent raid on the "complete but leagla grow operation" where they 22 year old son was dealing MJ treats, only the didn't arrest the MMJ paitient, just the son. The father was transported to the station house, questioned and released without any charges or bail. The only hting they seized was the growing MJ, prepared MJ and the MJ treats -- not the grow equipment.
Maybe I misuderstand the meaning of a "rogue police department" but I always thought it meant one who was out of control and unusual in its actions. In that context, my defense of the majority of LEOs doesn't seem to be at odds with my description of the improper actions of the few. Incidentally, base don my persona experiences with the members of the SPD and the experiences of my close friends and family, is that most of them privately agree that persecuting local growers, even those who make no attempt to hide behind the MMJ laws, is foolish, misguided and a waste of time, but offically they must toe the line or face disciplinary action and harassment at work.
AS to my request to PLEASE shut up , it was diredted presicely at the repeation of scary storioes with no facts or verifiable details to back them up. We are already way too paranoid, and I don't doubt that some of us have good reason to be fearful, to go around repeating scary urban legends that only serve to fan the fires of fear and paranoia.
As to the allegation that I don't want us to be informed, well thatis just the opposite of the truth. I want us to be very well informed, but do not want us misinformed and frightened by wive's tails. When I make a staement about what is happening, if I can't back it up with facts and verifiable details, then I need to back off, shut up and quit repeating rumors!
I don't think that I'many better than anyone else or that my advice applies only to other and not my self!
If calling someone's bluff to put up their facts or shut up is out of lline, then I guess I'm out of line and the couple of PM threats to ban me are worthless because I my continued particiapation on the forum is predicated on letting people spread rumors with out facts to back them up and letting them continue to spout them when asked ofro the facts behind them, then I don't want to be here nor do belong on a forum wheer people think it is alright to scream fire to further their conspiracy theories without being willing to show the facts to back them up. Do you think the freedom of speech only applies to people who agree with you ro allow you to stand up in a crowded room and scream at the top of your lungs "FIRE" without any basis, disregarding the resulting panic? I do not agree that even I have the right to say anything I want to say without being accountable to provide the facts or to ignore trhe results of my statements.
That is NOT freedom but anarchy and mob rule! I beg you to avoid those actions and attitudes.
We have way to many things to fight against and to worry about to beable to waste time fighting fires of panic and paranoia fanned by the repeatition of baseless rumors. If anyone can produce verifyable facts to support the claims that I was disputing, then I will not only apologize but gladly admit that I was wrong. Until then I stand by my denounciationof the spreading of fear and paranoia by repeating rumors, innuendos and urban legends.
Now as to the allegations that by describing an action as stupid, I am belittling the actor, I say BS. Very smart intelligent people do stupid things without becoming stupid themselves. On the other hand everyone can have moments of shear brillience! I have personally done way more than my share of downright stupid thing for whatever reason at the time and later thought about it and said to myself "Boy that was a stupid thing to do -- I know better than that, why did I do it?" and obviously I wasn't calling myself stupid but was owning up to the nature of what I did.
Rest assured that if I think you are stupid, then you aren't going to wonder about it because if I'm anythiing it is out spoken about my opinions of people groups and activities.
I love my oldest son dearly and admire high knowledge and intelligence greatly, but when he sold 1/4 oz andthen 1/2 oz to an undercover DEA agent based on a stranger having iarranged the sales and at the las tminute introduced the DEA agent into the transactions, I told him that was oneof the stupidest things he had done in a long time, but I still thought he was alot smarter than his actions showed. And guess what he agreed with me, stood up like a man and toook his year and a day sentence in the state correctional system without trying to claim that there was a conspiracy to get him because he had the basis for a recommendation but hadn't gotten one yet. He also knows and knew then that the recommendation at best only let him by from or sell to another patient, not to just anyone , and agruably doesn't even authorize us to sell to each other even though we are both patients.
I personally knowof several instances even here in Spokane withour rogue Chief where the patients and/or providers admit knowing what they were doing was illegal but instead of arresting them, the officers explained why they couldn't continue to do it and warned them. Does that sound like "the State of Washington is running around illegally raiding MMJ patients, seizing their MJ and equipment , holding them for 72 hours and then releasing them saying so sue us?"
Please remember the old standard format for inofrming people, who, when, where and how. Give me facts that are verifiable and I'll spread your warnings far and wide, even when I happen to believe that the "victim" created his own trouble by his foolishs or arrogant actions. If I rpovoke the cop, that doesn't make his reactoin any more right or wrong, but if I provoiked it then I must accept some of the responsibility and admit that had I not provoked the situation, it most likley would not have happened in the first place.
Peace to you all! Please just be careful about repeating rumors or urban legends that only frighten people without having all of the facts yourself.
Well I'm through with this. If anyone wants me ot clairfy myself, I'll respond gratefully but I'm not going ot argue any further. We all have much better things to do.
Oh, yes I'm very sure that I could have worded my comments differently and better, but I can only say I do the best I can at the moment. Hindsight is always much clearer than foresight.
Please everyone try to get every registered Washington State voter that we know to sign initiative I-1068 so we can put it to a vote of the people in November and also to vote for it so we can pass it. But we also need ot be prepared for the probable backlash from the government if we loose. That will embolden our enemies, so we can't afford to fail!
- enjoythetimespent likes this
Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:33 AM
Unfortunately, I feel compelled to step in here. My stepping in has nothing to do with this whole agenda, it is to ask very politely that you try to limit the posts that denounce any member or any information on here.
There are better ways to object to anything posted by any member. We live in a society highly governed by LEO.
We also live in a world where panic does exist, fear does exist and sometimes, when a person posts a bit of something, that they heard, the person does not always do that....to be belittled, or told they are misinformed. I also find the words used.."Shut up" to be inappropriate.
Politely and very slightly posting the facts below that individual/s, fear based bit of information is a better path.
This is not a dictatorship of thought, nor is is a military situation.
We all have powerful thoughts and ideas and we all understand moments when things are just shaking us to the core.
Please take a moment to come together on a bit more calm level of banter.
This is all I ask...thank you.
And I honestly ask this with all heart and soul....when I log on here..I am very sorry, but it breaks my heart to see dialogue taken to this level of scorn.
Edited by CaliWildViolet420, 11 March 2010 - 12:08 PM.
- I8ntLucky_UR, Sprocket, iradvs1 and 4 others like this
Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:06 PM
- Sprocket, CaliWildViolet420 and DonJones like this
Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:47 PM
It was very simply a raid against an totally illegal grow where the criminals were trying to use the possession of MMJ recommendations as a front for a non-medical grow. The police seized 105 plants from a joint grow operated by 2 men, who happened to have recommendations.
Under our laws, the absolute maximum number of plants that any individual can possess is 30, 15 for him/her self and 15 for a patient that he/she is a legal provider for. The last time I checked, assuming that both men had their 15 and 15 plants each for 2 other patients that still is only 60, which means that they had nearly 75% more than the absolute maximum number of plants allowed 2 growers under our laws and without being providers too, 250 % more plants than they were allowed for themselves.
Once again, today's raid on 2 medical marijuana growers in North Spokane, WA was NOT in anyway part of an attack on legal medical marijuana patients and/or providers. It was a raid on 2 foolish illegal growers who thought they could hide behind recommendations.
Now you are informed on what actually happened. Incidentally, the regional drug task force was involved in the 2 year long investigation.
Edited by DonJones, 12 March 2010 - 01:04 PM.
Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:13 PM
Here is a link to my detailed post on the subject
and here is the actual official text of the bill as posted on the legislatrure's website and as forwarded to the governor's office.
Now we can concentrate our efforts on getting I-1068 on th eNovember ballot and hopefully passed in November without being distracted by what the legislature is or is not doing to change our MMJ laws.
Please call the Governor's office and request strongly that she sign SB-5798 as submitted to her without any modifications.
Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:32 PM
It seems they also removed the "original document only" phrasing from the
final version...or am I just not seeing that requirement????
The "tamper resistant paper" has been shown to be readily available to MD's
and Clinics...so that is not as big a concern now that they removed the
"Board of Pharmacy" requirement crap.
I wonder how this will affect patient Providers that are growing for someone
who is unable to grow their own? Under the new rules, is a copy of the
original document still sufficient for a Provider?
- Sprocket likes this
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