Jump to content



                        Please Visit Our Paid Sponsors



Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

The Laws of Organic Cannabis


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#26 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:36 PM

I have been fine tuning this 3 room system for almost 7 years straight with one change and that’s the addition of the 400 for males instead of just some flos.
Clones and seedlings grow under a 18/6 light cycle until I can see roots in the lower drain holes. They then get transplanted again into large 7 gallon lowboy pots, using my super soil in bottom 2/3 of pot and straight premium potting soil in the top 1/3 and placed back in 18/6 under the same 1000 watt MH. Once the plants have been in veg for almost 60 days almost everything is finishing up in the bud room and harvest is approaching. One everything is trimmed up and the old pots moved out and the soil recycled it’s time to clean everything well, washing the floor and tarps with bleach and making sure everything is mold free. At this time I clean off the glass in the vented hoods with glass cleaner. A clean room is the sign of a good grower! The plants are now placed in main bud room that measures 10x5 with 2- 1000 Watt HPS Hortilux bulbs.
This is the time when we clean up our plants removing any smaller shoots that are shaded still so that this energy that would have gone to produce fluff and added time to trimming can instead go to the upper buds that are actually in the light. This also allows more air to circulate under the canopy so that O2 doesn’t stratify. This in it self will increase the yields and make your trimming a bit easier. I am not sure everyone will get this analogy but the plant looking up should kinds look like broccoli with everything up top.
Night temps run around 72 the A/C is set just to dehumidify mainly. Do not let humidity rise above 50% for long. It cooler climates this can invite mildew and mold. BTW I remove and wash my window unit well inside with disinfectant and anti microbal wash to prevent mold slime a grow room A/C gets way funky.
It may take some time before you perfect this method and you will make mistakes but each time you do you will learn from it! Day 45 here and as the bud room swells to completion over the next 15 days it’s time to take clones from the plants that are still vegging. The plants in veg have been under 18/6 since this same task was done on the last crop basically for the entire 45 days.
If you follow my 3 area set up you know that by some manual labor and lots of close attention I am able to load a crop every 50 days. It is going to be real hard this time as I have some monster plants that finish late that are not going to fit into the shorter veg room so I will have to work it out.
The Bud room is completely packed with wall to wall towering colas in the rear and shorter sticky bushes in the front.
Time to take clones! Even though I don’t keep mother plants I make sure we take clones while plants are super healthy and in full vegetive state this is very important. If you take cutting from sick or un healthy plants they can be damaged and never grow like the original plant.This is also a the time to clean up the canopy and perform your bondage. Trim off sucker shoots and make sure everything is right for entering the flowering phase.
To recap
Day 45 veg room is healthy and the plants 24-30” tall with numerous growing shoots. IT is time for your tallest varieties to be budded, this is done my manual caring the plants into a dark area when 12 hours of light has passed. The shorter finishing are given at least another week of 18/6 and some varieties like Purple Urkle can be left in 18/6 for three to four months before they are large enough to place into flower and get decent yields.
I will start harvesting Saturday taking Tiny Bomb first. Just a bit longer and day 56 chop Space Queen, this will allow me to spread out the monsters you see in the back to finish and have less shading and crowding.
What’s cool is this is when some varieties really pack on the weight and hopefully so will the other late finishing varieties in your garden. This extra weak can mean a huge difference in many plants.


Quality is what counts to me.
In 35 years of growing I have done ebb and flo, NFT, DWC, aero misters and many other contraptions. My organic soil produces the best buds I have ever smoked!
If your plants bud for 10-14 days before even entering the bud room then there ready to finish 2 weeks faster its all in the text
I am just a workaholic and this works for me if I didn't have my garden i'd loose my mind.

Attached Files


Edited by subcool, 30 June 2009 - 12:42 PM.

  • I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch, Spaceview and 2 others like this


                        Please Visit Our Paid Sponsors



#27 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:38 PM

Over 30 years of growing Cannabis I have noticed a few patterns emerging
I have noticed that plants like this that are literally done growing at harvest always taste better but more importantly are simply more dank! Healthy plants at the end are easier to trim and deff beefy but why is it a plant such as this that almost looks dead has such perfect reefer on it?
I saw a thread online the other day titled Hydro VS Organics. I did not replay as this argument is as old as Methuselah. We could debate this for eons It pretty obvious that the water boys out yield the mud boggers in the world but my days of Grams per watt are long gone. I run the same strains over and over and my goal each run is to make slight changes in my soil make up to determine when fading starts. To soon and the plant is green at finish and lacks flavor although I notice yields are better. To little and the fade starts so early that all the leaves fall off and yields suffer. The perfect blend will allow fading early in week 6-7 and continue to week 8 and beyond.

I have a theory you can laugh at. Its called infinite dankage, lets just say a plant has a determined amount of what we call dank. I don’t think I need to define this. It seems to me that a faded plant will produce less total mass there fore creating more dank per gram on the plant? Does this make any since. Have you ever grew w plant that was just sickly as hell all yellow and **** but have the bud from this plant taste better than normal? I am curious if others experience this.
If you haven’t guessed by now this is the Mother ship Apollo taken at 60 days the far end of her harvest window. This entire plant is head stash so I decided to make it as good as I know how.
I am smoking some scissor hash from trimming these upper nugs this am and I can tell you its as extreme as you’d want. The first small hunk took my breath and pumped out 3 huge hits of almost perfume tasting hash. It’s a bit like smoking channel #5 but there is also a fruity essence as well. A-13 make phenomenal Bubble is all I can say. It cannot be compared to anything I have ever smoked. As good as Vortex is, I prefer the bud smoke more than the mother, Momma still is the tops as far as resin is concerned it has a flavor and consistency like no other. Its shards up on scissors like clay or plumbers putty and has a deep red color.

Her downside is trimming. Imagine trimming this girl. I spend a good 4 hours on just the upper portion last night. The buds are covered in swirling curled sticky leaves that take loads of concentration and small scissors to clean up. I focus hard to remove all the sugar leaf as my main goal here is Bubble! I have noticed that actual sugar leaf makes the best hash. When I use pure bud I never get the same yields as with trim leaf. I think it’s almost a waste. So my buds get cleaned well to make more A-Bubble.

Attached Files


  • I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch, Spaceview and 2 others like this

#28 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:40 PM

I want to caution everyone again if you use Super Soil as directed don’t feed your damn plants!! I can’t be more clear and even though I knew this I ignored my own advise (I do this a lot) and last crop was one of the worst ever as far as yield, amazingly Jill and I were just commenting that burning the plants with to much nutrients seemed to make everything finish faster? Lets hope there is not a lot of experience on this theory. Over feeding is very common for a few reasons. People want to rush there plants and nutrient companies offer so many products and make such outrageous claims that people are easily swayed into trying every product on the market and over doing it. I believe less is more and its better to under feed a strain and make small changes the next round. Knee jerk reactions and poorly planned feeding schedules can really affect your end product. When growing in soil changes do not happen rapidly so when you do decide for sure you have deficiencies allow some time for your corrections to take place. I have seen people feed a plant that’s lacking and continue to do so each watering until they are now over feeding the plant by the time the plant has absorbed the first application. In Smaller pots with larger plants it may be necessary to feed with Cal-Mag and possibly some Organic Bloom fertilizer around day 30-45 but I prefer to use top dressing as spelled out in that chapter. If a certain strain shows early signs of nutrient deficiency then I will adjust the amount of Super Soil concentrate to take this added need into account. For example Space Queen always faded rapidly when using ½ concentrate and ½ potting soil but when we upped the amount of concentrate to ¾ the problem went away and yields went up. In these pictures I have some plants started in roots soil as seedlings and I make the mistake of watering a few of the plants with water I used a few nights earlier to feed some plants a light bloom mix along with Sucanat sugar and Sweatleaf a sugar and citric acid product that I believe really enhances the taste of cannabis flowers. Even though the mix was mainly just sugars there was enough Pure Blend Bloom in the water to burn the young plants and give us a good idea of what not to do with young plants. Notice the healthy plant that wasn’t watered with the solution but only clean pure water. Plants use small amounts of nutrients at first and almost any good soil especially one designed for growing cannabis will not need any of the many nutrients people use for seedlings. This plant was prefect till I poured from the wrong jug! Now lets look at a plant that has been fed only water If you haven’t heard of Sucanat It stands for Sugar Cane Natural. It's sugar in its most natural form - pure cane juice with only the water removed. This process preserves all the vitamin-filled molasses. The way it works is it gives carbohydrates to the plant. These carbohydrates would normally be made during photosynthesize, so it reduces the work load on the plant and all the extra carbohydrates can be used to build bud, and you also get the added benefit of the enhanced flavor of the weed. I am also convinced in increases resin production. This works my taking advantage of the Krebs cycle. The Krebs cycle is named, after the discoverer, German biochemist, Hans Adolph Krebs. Within the Krebs cycle, energy in the form of ATP is usually derived from the breakdown of glucose. Since glucose can pass through cell membranes, it transports energy from one part of the plant to another. Hence the Sugars and carbohydrates we add at day 30 and day 45. I use 1 cup of Sucanat and ½ Cup Sweatleaf by Advanced Nutrients. Most people that try this swear by it and it becomes part of there normal routine and day 30 and day 45.

Attached Files


  • I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch, Spaceview and 3 others like this

#29 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:42 PM

Everyone still with me?? dancingspiderman
  • I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch, 4evergreen and 3 others like this

#30 kareem ahvunyun

kareem ahvunyun

    friend of bubba

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:55 PM

Everyone still with me??

dancingspiderman


in between weedin and barkdust.dancingspiderman
  • Hatch and KaK like this

#31 4evergreen

4evergreen

    Learning from you all!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 756 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:07 PM

Hi Subcool my friend, I got a question. Your thread mostly do teach very important things but appropiate for soil, can you share some tips with us, the hydro people??? Peace
  • Hatch and KaK like this

#32 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:23 PM

I cannot dancingspiderman I played with Hydro early on but I never mastered it organically. I think Hydro is the fastest way to produce cannabis but I have been impressed my only a few water growers in my life. I know the best results these days seem to be with Coco but its to much science for me. Sorry Sub
  • pine boy, Hatch, 4evergreen and 3 others like this

#33 4evergreen

4evergreen

    Learning from you all!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 756 posts

Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:32 PM

Not a problem, I am still learning from you, there are things that you are teaching us all that are as good for soil as for hydro. I am taking notes of those tips Peace and thanks for sharing with us your great knowledge!
  • Hatch and KaK like this

#34 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:42 AM

So you have worked hard for 8 weeks! You have invested money into equipment and possibly genetics; you have invested time and dedication to get to this point. How can you tell when it’s time to harvest your gooey girls? Well ‘fire one up’ and let’s take a look at the best way to be sure you’re harvesting at peak potency, or at least you will better understand what happens in the final weeks, so you can harvest for the specific type of high you prefer.
The harvest window is one aspect of the craft which unfortunately, gets over looked or the grower simply doesn’t have the patience to wait-out the last few days, to insure max THC content. Some strains are better harvested before their peak THC production and some are better harvested after their peak THC production. This is what Robert Clark wrote in his book “Marijuana Botany” about trichomes and what they tell us; “The elevated resin heads appear clear, since fresh resin is still being secreted, often being produced in the cellular head of the trichome. At this time THC acid production is at a peak and CBD acid levels remain stable as the molecules are rapidly converted to THC acids, THC acid synthesis has not been active long enough for a high level of CBN acid to build up from the degradation of THC acid by light and heat. Terpene production is also nearing a peak and the floral clusters are beautifully aromatic. Many cultivators prefer to pick some of their strains during this stage in order to produce marijuana with a clear, cerebral, psychoactive effect It is believed that, in peak floral clusters, the low levels of CBD and CBN allow the high level of THC to act without their sedative effects.”
What the hell does this mean?
When growing Indica hybrids, unless you want to end up on the couch, it’s best to harvest when the trichome heads are fully formed but before they start to cloud over and turn amber. According to the maturation time of the specific strain this could take as little as five days or as long as two weeks. If you allow an Indica to go too long you can dramatically affect the taste and high. Fortunately going too long is not a real problem for most people. I like to study close-up photos taken with a high resolution digital camera; however an inexpensive hand-held microscope works wonders. It almost looks like you are in an alien world when looking at resinated buds using fifty-times-power.
With the Sativa dominant hybrids you want to make sure that all the trichome heads are fully formed and also about thirty percent amber. Letting a plant mature beyond this will risk flavor as well as, the finished smoke may be harsh with very little “high”. There are exceptions as I mentioned; Haze has three different harvest windows all being very late into flower. It is every grower’s job to learn what he or his patients prefer in the terms of “High”.
We have not yet addressed yields because if you are at the third stage of floral maturity with fully form trichomes, then we will have to assume most strains have packed on all their final weight. Even then, there are variables but we can use the guide-lines spelled out below to help gauge the best harvest window for your plants based on the trichomes.


  • Fully formed but still clear will provide a cleaner ‘up’ high with less sedative effect; this is the best window for heavy Indicas.
  • Fully formed and turning slightly cloudy or milky; this is probably the best time to pick most hybrids available today.
  • Fully formed completely cloudy or milky with at least thirty percent of the heads turning amber; this is usually best window for the late maturing Sativa’s such as Haze. This is also a good window when using the plant primarily for Hash production.

Take for instance the Jacks Cleaner harvested at fifty-six days; all trichomes are still visibly clear with very few turning cloudy. At this point it has a very ‘up’ high and an ‘in-the-head’ buzz. I get some good visuals and the lemon flavor is sour and a tad tart. The same plant, left just one more week at sixty-three days flower; the trichomes have turned milky white and a good portion, about thirty to fifty percent, are deep amber almost the color of cola. Taken at this time the smoke is heavy and thick, the lemon zing has been replaced with a musty sweet lemon smell that reminds me of ‘Lemon Heads’ candy. The high is now all body high and very much a sedative. We would smoke this only as our night time medication. It is almost an example of a plant taken too late, however we do this because of the medicinal properties she takes-on at this late stage.
Another example is Killer Queen. At forty-nine days flower, she has a candy-like smell and taste with that same ‘up’ high. If you were to harvest her at sixty days flower, she becomes ‘Super’ Killer Queen, with a more skunk-like smell and a thicker trance-like high.
The mistake to try and avoid is harvesting before the trichomes are fully formed, so as mentioned in the guideline; most growers whom use this method, harvest at the point in which the majority of the heads are cloudy. Harvesting before this window will produce bud that is less potent, containing less essential oils and trepans, causing your finished stash to take on a grassy or green taste, even if it is dried and cured correctly.
Another good method would be harvesting some of the more mature buds, usually being the upper or main colas. This will allow more light to shine down on the lower portion of the plant, not only will the buds mature further but they will also pack on some extra size.
If you have a nice digital camera with a macro feature, try taking some close-up photos and use a photo editing program such as Adobe. This will allow you to zoom in close so you can see what the necked eye cannot see. If this is not an option, Radio Shack sells battery-powered hand-held microscopes for about fifteen dollars.
Take advantage of this information, it will help maximize the results of your favorite strain, or help you determine the harvest window of something new.

Attached Files


  • pine boy, kailiwela44, I8ntLucky_UR and 6 others like this

#35 4evergreen

4evergreen

    Learning from you all!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 756 posts

Posted 03 July 2009 - 03:28 AM

Excellent info! Thanks Peace

#36 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:40 AM

Properly processing the cannabis at harvest is a craft that must be mastered in order to enhance and preserve the psychoactive properties, the taste and the appearance of the finished product. Many talented growers fail to implement some of the following techniques and the result is not up to maximum potential. Inadequate or poor handling after harvest is the biggest cause of, less than top quality cannabis. This problem is compounded by the fact that most growers feel his or her pot is better than everyone else’s. Try to tell a grower whom is your friend that he or she could do a better job on trimming and curing; this will usually result in the end of a friendship. A good trim and cure can make the difference between green tasting, hard to burn nugs and pleasurable, smooth, clean burning dank nugs.
There are two basic methods used by growers, when harvesting their cannabis. Some growers prefer to cut the buds from the branches individually, while others growers may prefer to harvest the entire plant, by cutting it off at the main stalk near the bottom.
Many for a few reasons, prefer individual cola harvesting. With some cannabis plants the buds will finish at different times. For example; the top colas may be already ripe and can be removed to allow the lower branches to be exposed to light, therefore allowing the lower buds to further ripen giving a larger yield.
Individual harvesting and drying is faster than drying a whole harvested cannabis plant. When a cannabis plant is harvested the stomata on the surface of the leaves and calyxes will start closing off, allowing only a small amount of water vapors to escape through the stomata. Thus forcing the excess moisture stored within the stems/stalks to exit through the cuts you have made on the stalks/stems when harvesting. The less cuts for the water vapors to exit through, the longer the drying time will be.
For the best end results we have found that upon harvest, it is best to trim all foliage from the colas/buds while the foliage is still rigid and fully hydrated. It is very important to remove as many leaves protruding from the bud, as possible. These leaves still contain chlorophyll, which will adversely affect the taste of your finished product. Some growers prefer to leave these leaves to curl around the bud for finished appearance. We feel that it will definitely take away from the taste and smoothness of the finished product.
Trimming is a tedious job that requires a lot of patience, self-discipline, and the proper supplies. It is important to have a good pair of scissors for trimming. A good ten-dollar pair of hair cutting shears will do the job very well. It is nice to have a bowl for the shade leaves and a bowl for the sugar leaves. We like to separate the shade leaves from the sugar leaves, as we utilize the sugar leaves for hash and butter making. A table, along with a comfortable chair, and good lighting are also musts for trimming. Try to sit up straight and keep your back straight, set goals and take breaks; trimming a full crop can mean several days worth of work, even for the experienced trimmer.



Drying your buds is simply a process that precedes the end curing process, drying is merely an act of removing the excess water from the cannabis. We like to leave the buds on the stems and hang on a string or hanger of some sort. It is best to dry the buds in a place that allows for indirect lighting and also adequate air circulation. A fan is good to have in the room, but not to be directly pointed at the hanging buds. Allow the buds to dry until they are crisp on the outside and the stems will still be pliable, since the stems contain so much residual moisture it is best at this time to remove the buds from the stems and place in a large bowl, on a screen or a tray. In our climate the hanging time is about five days, but the drying time will vary due to humidity. We like the buds to dry slowly as this makes for a smoother cure, rather than drying the buds too quickly. When buds are allowed to dry slowly the humidity is closer to that of the inside of the stomata. If cannabis is dried to rapidly, the ‘green’ taste will remain present in the finished product. According to the time of year, the temperature and the type of heat in your home humidity, airflow, and the density of your buds; drying time can vary from five days to ten days.


Cannabis will continue to cure after it is harvested, while it is drying and even after it is placed into a jar. Just like a fine wine or a gourmet coffee bean, marijuana needs to be cured to achieve the rich, robust, smooth taste that lingers on your palette and in your brain. During the curing period the cannabinoid acids go through the process of decarboxylation into the psychoactive cannabinoids and the terpenes will isomerize to create new polyterpenes. Just as with any other fruit, when cannabis is harvested, the fruit or bud is not dead, it continues to metabolize. If you pick a tomato from your garden and it is still partially green, you would set it in the windowsill to further ripen or metabolize. Another example is a fresh banana, it may still show green on the peel and the fruit inside is hard and the taste is milder, as the banana ages the peel will turn darker yellow and the fruit inside will become softer and have a more rich flavor. The more robust flavors and tantalizing fragrances begin to appear as the chlorophyll and other pigments begin to break down.

When the small stems, which remain under the buds, are completely dry enough to snap and the buds are dry enough to smoke, it is time to start the end curing process. We use glass-canning jars, such as Mason, Ball or Kerr, to cure and store our finished product. Freezer bags can also be used for storage of cannabis. Do not store your cannabis in sandwich bags or anything made of a similar plastic, because the cannabis will become to dry and it will lose potency. It is important to open the jars to allow in oxygen that is needed for the curing process, and to allow gases built up from the curing process to escape. During the first three days we open the jars once a day. After the first three days, for two weeks open your jars twice a week, then one time after the first month; at which time the cure will be complete. Make sure your cannabis is completely dry before leaving it in sealed jars or containers. Leaving wet cannabis in any sealed jar or container will result in mold, and it will become unsafe to smoke.

Store your jarred, cured cannabis in a cool dark place, to help slow the break down of the cannabinoids. Although cannabis needs oxygen through the metabolizing/curing stage, oxygen plays an adverse roll on already cured cannabis causing the breakdown of THC into CBN. We store our marijuana in canning jars with lids on tight, inside of a cool dark closet.

Implementation of the simple steps listed above will make your dank a legend amongst your friends.

Glossary


Calyxes The sepals of a flower considered as a group.
Cannabinoid… Any of various organic substances, such as THC, found in cannabis.
Canna-Butter Butter reprocessed with cannabinoids.
CBN… (Cannabinol) Occurs during the breakdown of THC in the curing process.
Chlorophyll Any of a group of green pigments that are found in the chloroplasts of plants.
Curing To prepare, preserve, or finish (a substance) by a chemical or physical process.
Decarboxylation Removal of a carboxyl group from a chemical compound, usually with hydrogen replacing it.
Harvest The process of gathering a crop at the end of its season.
Hash Purified resinous extract of the hemp plant; used as a hallucinogen. Bubble Hash
Humidity Wetness in the atmosphere.
Isomeric… Any of two or more substances that are composed of the same elements in the same proportions but differ in properties because of differences in the arrangement of atoms.

Isomerize To cause to change into an isomeric form.
Metabolism The chemical processes occurring within a living cell or organism that are necessary for the maintenance of life. In metabolism some substances are broken down to yield energy for vital processes while other substances, necessary for life, are synthesized.
Metabolize To subject (a substance) to metabolism.
Mold (Fungi) A superficial often, woolly growth produced especially on damp or decaying organic matter or on living organisms.
OxygenA nonmetallic element constituting 21 percent of the atmosphere by volume that occurs as a diatomic gas, O2, and in many compounds such as water and iron ore. It combines with most elements, is essential for plant and animal respiration, and is required for nearly all combustion.
Poly More than one; many; much
Psychoactive Affecting the mind, mood, or other mental processes. THC is the principal psychoactive ingredient in marijuana
Stomata One of the minute pores in the epidermis of a leaf or stem through which gases and water vapor pass.
Terpenes Any of various unsaturated hydrocarbons, C10H16, found in essential oils and oleoresins of plants and used in organic syntheses.
THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) A compound, C21H30O2, obtained from cannabis or made synthetically, that is the primary intoxicant in marijuana and hashish.




**Written and Photographed by: MzJill of Subcool Seeds/TGA

Attached Files


  • pine boy, I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch and 4 others like this

#37 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:46 AM

Most growers never have the opportunity to learn the male of the species in detail and I thought it would be fun to discuss what I look for when choosing a male, how we go about collecting pollen and how we breed a full sized plant. Before we talk about collecting pollen lets talk about staggering. This is a trick I learned by trial and error that allows us to get the maximum number of seeds per plant. This doesn’t apply to those just working with a branch or two we will discuss this also. When pollinating a mother plant for seed I will start her into 12/12 a full 7 days before I move the male into budding room. Keeping in mind that each strain is going to be a bit different on time frame but this seven day rule has worked very well for us. This allows the female plant to develop enough pistils to produce a high volume of seeds. Once the male is flowering well the females will be entering a window around day 21-24. Most Hybrids I work with are done in less than 9 weeks so pollinating the females at 3 weeks in is good place to start. You can pollinate up to day 30 of budding but you stand a good chance of the seeds never getting mature so I find each strains perfect window. Ealier maturing strains should be pollinated closer to day 21 and longer maturing varieties closer to 30 days. One thing I must insert and I am not trying to be rude for your younger inspiring breeders out there concentrate on producing the best herb you can and mastering the craft of room set up. Again no offence but you can’t breed properly in a cab I do it in a limited space granted but I have been growing successfully some 32 years and didn’t start breeding till I had around 20 years under my belt. It doesn’t hurt to experiment that is how we learn but I think at least a few years as a grower are in order before anyone attempts breeding even though I lay out every single step. If you think its easy ask any grower how many complete cluster****s he’s grown out from so called “Established Breeders” It takes an eye and that is gained from experience. Here are some things we look for when selecting a new male. The earliest plants to indicate sex are always tossed out. In nature Cannabis is a hemp dominant species and the drug traits we seek for medication have been bred into the plant over thousands of years my mans intervention. In the wild these hemp dominant males acclimate the variety and the drug traits are dominated by other traits like fiber production and vigor. Smell plays a huge roll in my selection process and once a male plant is sexually mature at about day 45 I analyze each plant by rubbing each stem and making notes on the ones I like best. This may seem very basic but its been my experience that a skunky sour male will lend this smell trait to a new hybrid. Conversely if the male doesn’t smell incredibly dank the results are less than satisfactory. The final attribute I look for is a new male is resin. The number and frequency of non-glandular trichomes on a young male plant can be a huge indicator as to the quality of the plant. If a plant smells great and is covered in resin at day 45 I will absolutely give him a try with one of our best females. By comparing the sibling crosses to the original P1 female we can determine what characteristics are passed on. There is certainly much more to it but this is a basic guide line of the external characteristics we look for in a male plant. Ok so now we have our male in full bloom and we have our females in the breeding room. This area should be completely separated from main bud area preferably in another building completely. If the two rooms share a common HVAC duct system you will get pollution into your main area. Pollen is serious stuff and flies everywhere and you cannot see it. It will stick to your clothes, pets, etc. You must change cloths and bath after entering your breeding area. I prefer to simply allow my males to hang out with my mothers for a few days with a small fan positioned on the male with females in the air stream. As the stamen open the pollen naturally flies into the air providing max coverage. We also like to pluck off ripe pods and gently roll them between our fingers over each cola head. This is how we capture the amazing suspended pollen shots I set as a standard and later Jill perfected.

Attached Files


  • pine boy, I8ntLucky_UR, Hatch and 1 other like this

#38 subass

subass

    Has Bad Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1030 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:48 AM

One trick that can be used if you don’t want to pollinate an entire room is the pollen trap. This trick takes a good eye for when the male stamens are about to open. If you can figure that out simple take two large Tupperware containers and form a box that will hold a cup with water. Wax paper in bottom and along sides and tops you have cut off the mature male. Place the tops to hang over the wax paper and tape the entire box shut this allows you to have it in a non secure place like a veg room. Warning don’t spill the water it ruins the pollen don’t put more into the glass that you need to I used a heavy bar glass that wouldn’t tip over. One thing we should cover is male cluster formation. When selecting a male for breeding we run him as a mature full size plant and we want to see even if he has met all our other breeding criteria that he makes big gnarly male clusters this indicates the bud formation he might pass on. Once the plants are fully pollinated I wash the females off with a spray bottle of water and if its raining I place out doors for a night up high on a barrel where no bugs could possibly get to her. I prefer a gentle long rain to a spray bottle as it removed any access pollen. Once I have redundantly rinsed I place the mothers back into my main bud not in the main air stream of my blowers. The male Cannabis plant is equally as beautiful to me as a huge cola. He carries half of the genetic code that is responsible for creating the Dank and without him we could not create flavor combinations like Lemon- Berry or Mango Orange. So remember the next time you kill a group of male plants they have there place in the world and are beautiful in the own way!

Attached Files


  • pine boy, Hatch and KaK like this

#39 kareem ahvunyun

kareem ahvunyun

    friend of bubba

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:53 AM

while i am not a breeder, i am an organic grower. i would like to thank subcool and mzjill for helpin to show folks how it is done. you both truely have the green passion!
  • Zigzagman, Hatch and KaK like this

#40 pine boy

pine boy

    Has many harvests

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 851 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:08 AM

Yeah Kareem,I will second that and add my own thanks. I have a feeling everyone on this forum will get something from your writings.Subcool and Mzjill...Thanks guys
  • Zigzagman, Hatch and KaK like this

#41 Michoacan

Michoacan

    Grower

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted 04 July 2009 - 01:31 PM

Cool thread, going to have a chapter on closet growing? I just completed my first grow, White Widow, all organic, and it is the best pot I've ever smoked. Most of the "super weed" you find around here is hydro skunk, very potent, but smokes like green cardboard. I'm intrigued by your "fade" stage of plant growth, and wonder if you could elaborate? My Widows turned very yellow, very early into flower, about the 3 week. I've wondered if I hit them with more nitro during flower, if yield would have improved. I ended up with about 1 1/4 oz per plant, not too bad for a 2' x 4.' closet. :hawkeye:
  • judi_b3 and KaK like this

#42 chronicfarmer

chronicfarmer

    freak of nurture

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts

Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:52 PM

1000 Watt Hoods…………6x6
600 Watt Hoods………….5x5
400 Watt Hoods………….4x4
250 Watt Hoods………….3x3


The wattage per square foot is pretty consistent in the table above:

1000W / 36sf = 27.78 watts/sf
600W / 25sf = 24.00 watts/sf
400W / 16sf = 25.00 watts/sf
250W / 09sf = 27.78 watts/sf

I'm designing a potential new grow space where I'm planning for between 2,200 and 3,500 in total square footage - a warehouse. Haven't selected the space yet, though I've looked at a few. I'm in the planning/budgeting/working-with-the-lawyer stages right now.

I'm thinking that using standard 48"x48" pallets as the base for my planters will be useful, because that way we can move 16sf chunks of plants around with an electric pallet truck (a powered hand truck). The weight of wet soil included, it's well within tolerances for the pallets and trucks.

So I could use your table and go with a lot of 400W HID lamps, but that's not very cost-effective. Seems better to go with a 1000W lamp per pair of pallets. So the 1000W is now covering 4'x8', which is 32sf, for a ratio of 31.25 watts/sf.

That's pretty close to your ratios, but higher, which has me worrying that it might be a bit too much. I can always raise the lamps/hoods to keep a bit more distance from the plants.

What do you think? I really like the pallet idea, not only for moving the plants, but it standardizes the space and makes everything modular. Is the 1000W per 4'x8' reasonable? It looks like many of the hoods are rectangular anyway.

ps - I am replying to this sticky post instead of starting a new thread, mostly because of the table I'm quoting at the top. If this belongs in a new thread, please feel free to move it or tell me where to stick it.
  • Bueller and KaK like this

#43 oldbootz

oldbootz

    Newbie

  • Seasoned Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:44 AM

nice males there subcool :)
  • Bueller and KaK like this

#44 Guest_SomeDude_*

Guest_SomeDude_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:33 AM

3500sqft... dam dude how much weed ya plan on growing? Sounds like someone wants to make some serious cash imho, you will prolly get better lumens/watt with 600's vs 1000's -- the extra 400W for only an extra 20,000 lumens isn't really worth it

#45 chronicfarmer

chronicfarmer

    freak of nurture

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts

Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:09 AM

3500sqft... dam dude how much weed ya plan on growing? Sounds like someone wants to make some serious cash

imho, you will prolly get better lumens/watt with 600's vs 1000's -- the extra 400W for only an extra 20,000 lumens isn't really worth it


Yea 3,500 sf is a lot, right now I'm planning on more like 2,500 sf. We're working to open a "club" here in the county, and do most of our own growing. It ain't about making money; it's all non-profit. I and others make salary, not excessive, but Norcal can be pricey. These days this kind of venture is not about making FU money, it's about doing something right and making it good for the community. I'm just looking to make a base living and do something extremely awesome by growing phenomenal herbs, educating people, and giving back to the community. I can forward you the business plan if you like :-)

As for the lumens/watt, thx for the advice. I'm trying to figure out how to use a large space somewhat efficiently. I'm a great facilitator, strategist, butt-kicker, but I'm no expert on various topics, so I ask a lot of questions and appreciate the useful answers.

I just looked up lumens for HPS bulbs in the spec sheets on the Hortilux site (this is Mean Lumens at 10 hours/start):

1000W (LU1000B/HTL/EN) = 127,000 lumens = 127 lumens/watt
600W (LU600S/HTL/EN) = 76,000 lumens = 126.7 lumens/watt
400W (LU400S/HTL/EN) = 49,000 lumens = 122.5 lumens/watt

These are pretty consistent, so I'm not going to worry about this moving forward. The consistency extends to MH bulbs at diff wattages too.

SomeDude: Where did you get your info and why might it be diff from the Hortilux specs?

Edited by chronicfarmer, 17 February 2010 - 01:27 PM.
edited my reason for editing

  • Bueller and OniusOniusOnius like this

#46 FXDXRider

FXDXRider

    The Motorcycle Nomad

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts

Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:01 PM

Wow thanks 4 all this killer info!!!

#47 papadank

papadank

    TGA Green Avenger

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPip
  • 96 posts
  • LocationLand of Oz

Posted 26 March 2010 - 05:37 PM

I love Sub's organic tutorial. I'm real familiar with it and use my own variation it. It works REALLY well for those of you who have never used it. Azomite is the bomb and nothing can even come close to the sweet taste this organic recipe imparts on the flavor of our beloved plant. Peace, PD
  • GeeGee likes this

#48 papadank

papadank

    TGA Green Avenger

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPip
  • 96 posts
  • LocationLand of Oz

Posted 26 March 2010 - 05:39 PM

One more note, most people I know will pass up on every "hip" strain out there for my Organic Jillybean. If I tell folks I have it, they pass up on Chemdog, CHeese and everything else for it. It really does make for some tasty chit. Peace, PD
  • subass and GeeGee like this

#49 oldbootz

oldbootz

    Newbie

  • Seasoned Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 03 April 2010 - 08:55 AM

2 good genetics x good growing skills = good weed
  • subass and Bueller like this

#50 JohnBlazino

JohnBlazino

    Newbie

  • Seasoned Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 14 May 2010 - 10:50 PM

very informative thread... just like goin to school. I love it. Thanks Sub and Mz Jill for passing on these organic jewels. I defintaley am open ears and eyes to what you guys post. And I am using the SS formula for my first go at an organic grow. Thanks for the motivation!
  • subass likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users