Coco coir Grow From Seeds

[Brussels]

After looking around the site, I've not seen anyone doing a coco grow. I have quite a supply of my own F1 seeds from C99xApollo11, and thought I'd give it a whorl. I had already transplanted an almost depleted mother into coco, and have been very surprised with the results.

At first, I had planned to use four seeds, then a week later, decided to germ six more as a hedge against my learning curve. One was eaten before I discovered I had a small worm trolling about.

Prior to germinating, I had presoaked the coco with a 1/4 strength solution of botanicare progrow. Once the germ'd seeds were placed in the coco, I used only water until the first real node appeared. Afterwards, I've been hand watering with the same solution once daily for the first week. Starting the second week, I've watered twice a day allowing about 10% of the solution to run to waste. After three weeks, I intend to increase to 50% solution.

I've been growing them outdoors during daylight hours, and bring them into one of my grow spaces under a T5 fixture, using only two of it's eight lamps, for a daily total of 20 hours of light. As they grow, I will increase the number of tubes active.

It's my understanding that coco can be as fast and productive as many hydroponic systems, without some of the difficult issues to maintain. I'll attempt to keep this thread updated as growth and items of interest occure...B

[jangel]

Great start, Brussels. I am curious how you conteract the acidity I have read happens in older coco grow media. Have you used coco coir before or is this a new media for you? Do you buy the media in brick form and break it down or does yours come broken up? How easy is the media to acquire? I know at my hydro store I have seen it in bricks.

Thanks for the info in advance and thanks for adding to GP's knowledge base by doing this. I am looking foreward to watching your girls grow!

Peace

[scott06]

similar to Jangel I had heard other problems with some types of Coco coir....how do you tell the good stuff from the not so good stuff?

[Brussels]

Originally Posted by jangel

Great start, Brussels. I am curious how you conteract the acidity I have read happens in older coco grow media. Have you used coco coir before or is this a new media for you? Do you buy the media in brick form and break it down or does yours come broken up? How easy is the media to acquire? I know at my hydro store I have seen it in bricks.

Thanks for the info in advance and thanks for adding to GP's knowledge base by doing this. I am looking foreward to watching your girls grow!

Peace

jangle, lets see if I can address your questions; most will not be from first hand experience, rather what I have learned from my friendly hydroponic store guy.
BTW, he not only has wonderful grows in progress with the various systems he sells, but coco grows of tomatoes and bell peppers as well.
I had asked him if this particular coco product needs to be washed/flushed -- he states that he never has washed his, and that it has been pre-washed. It is a bit more expensive than other bricks I've seen, but still...being the cynic I am, I've flushed mine three times, and allowed it to sit out during two thunder storms.
My first experience using coco is for cloning. I find it absolutely amazing with the speed roots develop. My C99's root in six to seven days. My second experience has been in transplanting a very dilapidated mother into coco. I had completely washed the roots clean of potting soil, and re-potted her in coco. Four days, and she's doing well.
I had given ten clones to one of our little grow-OP's member who grew them out in coco, all under lights with great success. I was only intermittently involved with that.
I use a wheel barrow to break the brick apart. It's very easy: just add a couple gallons of water, and let it sit a while. The stuff just falls apart.
I do intend to do a complete flush on the plants every four weeks, even though I'm not certain they'll need it. There is something of a flush every time I add solution -- I feed there until there is a runoff. Maybe I'll do the fourth week flush on half of them simply to see if it makes any difference. This should be a fun exercise, and hopefully I can keep those little worms away from them. So far, the little plants, one and two weeks old, are doing just fine.
B

Coco is great for starting seeds. I put 6 White Widow x Super Silver Haze seeds in coco 2 days ago, and today I have 6 seedlings.
I soaked the coco (Botanicare 5k block) in nute solution to expand it. It says it's pre-flushed of excess sodium, so I believed em. I'll give em a little plain water till first leaves appear, then hit em with nutes.

I will never go back to soil.

I had a C99 mom that was stunted from my old soil. Did the same thing you did Brussels, I took it out of the pot of soil and shook all the soil off of the roots. That was about a week ago and it's starting to take off like it should.

Oh yeah, I have 5 Strawberry Diesel x NYCD 16 days old, and they look better than month old plants in soil.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your C99 x A11 grow.

[jangel]

Originally Posted by hazy

Coco is great for starting seeds. I put 6 White Widow x Super Silver Haze seeds in coco 2 days ago, and today I have 6 seedlings.
I soaked the coco (Botanicare 5k block) in nute solution to expand it. It says it's pre-flushed of excess sodium, so I believed em. I'll give em a little plain water till first leaves appear, then hit em with nutes.

I will never go back to soil.

I had a C99 mom that was stunted from my old soil. Did the same thing you did Brussels, I took it out of the pot of soil and shook all the soil off of the roots. That was about a week ago and it's starting to take off like it should.

Oh yeah, I have 5 Strawberry Diesel x NYCD 16 days old, and they look better than month old plants in soil.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your C99 x A11 grow.

Great info Hazy. Nice to have you here. Please take a wander over to the Introduce yourself thread and say hi. Lots of people that would like to Welcome you to Green Passion!

Peace

[Brussels]

Hazy, do you find it necessary during the growing cycle to do a frest water flush, or do you simply allow the fresh solution to flush out any nasty's that might accumulate? So far, I have about a 10% run off with each feeding, and I'm curious if that will be enough. thanks...B

[MediNorCal]

i have two big plants in coco and let me tell you ITS A BITCH!

they drink sooo much, yestorday for instance ( first day it's happened)

i ussually water at around 12-2pm at the latest, yestorday at around 3pm i was like oh SHOOT gotta water, i get outside and the two cocos are like wilting and looking like death is awaiting them! it was a bit hot yestorday in the 80s maybe, but everyone else was fine the other mediums( even the ones that are a mix of coco and perlite mix were fine, also 2 big plants) anywho, the plants love them, there just a bitch if you forget to water, not forgiving at all, again, these plants are huge and drink alot but still, similar sized ones in coco mix did not show signs of wilt while the ones in coco only did its a 7L pot w/ coco and 5'9-6' plants...other plants that are in other soils, fox farm, cheap organic miracle gro are more forgiving to the plants then coco, and I have to use alot more water when watering as it just goes right thru my medium, but they like it, I know plants like coco, i guess I would just recommend you use alot of perlite in your mix but not too much maybe like 20-25%

oh yeah, if you have some sort of automatic watering system, this would be perfect! A friend of mine who uses an automatic system gives his plants .5 liters every 5 mins...I see a huge improvement in growth rates with constant small waterings, specially if your medium can take it ( soil you cant do 5 mins it will just med all muddy and you kill your roots)

[Brussels]

Originally Posted by MediNorCal

oh yeah, if you have some sort of automatic watering system, this would be perfect! A friend of mine who uses an automatic system gives his plants .5 liters every 5 mins...I see a huge improvement in growth rates with constant small waterings, specially if your medium can take it ( soil you cant do 5 mins it will just med all muddy and you kill your roots)

Medi-- I have an electronic timer from Harbor Freight that I'll use to pump solution into each pot once they reach the level of maturity for their transplant. (ya gotta love a BF who'll find these cool things for you - makes it worthwhile to keep at least one around) I have 180 and 240 gpm pumps, and will work out the timing for feedings.

I've started twice a day feedings, and growth is accelerated. Today will clip one of the first batch seedlings, at the sixth node, he other three should be ready in another day or so. I've 'numbered' each plant now, and intend to keep a record of several growth aspects: I intend to grow the most vigorous male to flower inside a spare bedroom attempting further strengthen my private seed strain. I'll pollinate several of the lower flowers on a couple of select fems; keep the seeds, and put the buds in my hash bag. Will update photos Tuesday after a full week of development...B

[Brussels]

Okay, time for an update. Today the plants are two and three weeks old respectively, though my updated photos are after only five additional days growth. I had started the plants before I decided it might be a fun log.
Photos one and two show the incredible growth spurt in the past five days. I'm still feeding 1/4 strength solution, though in two days I'll increase to 3/8 strength for the first four plants. Even the runts of the litter have taken off, and the younger five plants are beginning to level out in height.
Photo three show the rapid internode growth after the plant was topped. Pretty remarkable in my experience. The second and third plants that were topped are beginning to show the same pattern.
The final photo shows the two different phenotypes I get from this F1 seed stock. It will become even more apparent as they mature. One of my goals is to have seeds from each pheno.
The little plants are outside from dawn to dusk, with about ten hours direct sun, in our 95 degree Texas heat. Cindy strains work very well in our heatwhich is why I stick with her. Around 8 PM, I'll bring them into the grow room, and they remain under 4, four ft T5 tubes until 3 am. Three weeks into this little experiment, and I'm quite pleased...B

[Brussels]

Forgot to add a few photos of the first topping. With the help of a
grow-op friend I took several pics...B

[Lee]

i would of topped her a little lower. But I think that should do the trick.

[MercyEternity]

Hey Brussels your plants look really nice and green. I have been interested in the co-co like many others and I was just wondering how is your PH? Do you have to adjust every watering or does the co-co stand true?

I have read that it needs to be rinsed before use or it causes reactions and on the other hand I have read that it maintains the PH at 6.5 always.

[Brussels]

Originally Posted by MercyEternity

Hey Brussels your plants look really nice and green. I have been interested in the co-co like many others and I was just wondering how is your PH? Do you have to adjust every watering or does the co-co stand true?

I have read that it needs to be rinsed before use or it causes reactions and on the other hand I have read that it maintains the PH at 6.5 always.

Mercy...I know this is way outside the box, but I have no idea what the pH is in the coco. I have a relative idea of where my water/solution stands, as I measure it when I do winter DWC grow. A new 10 gal container of solution mix runs from 6.0 to 6.2 with my digital meter. I've never had problems with those numbers, so I simply leave well enough alone. I don't do any run-off testing, because I really dont care. I just want to keep it simple if no problems occur.

The coco I use is said to be pre-rinsed -- I still rinsed it myself. One of my goals with this grow is to see if coco can be as fast and productive as DWC. I'd just love to eliminate many of the hassles connected with dwc. I'm somewhat obsessive about my growing, and have fairly accurate records of each grow. The past three cold seasons, I've had very successful bubbler harvests, and the speed can't be argued. This grow will be used as a comparison.
So far, I really really like this stuff. Next installment with photos next Tuesday...B

[Brussels]

Alrighty! During the past week, things have really picked up. After giving the kids a new home, they taken off. All plants except the 'runt' of the litter have been nipped at the sixth node, and three have been cut again at the 2nd node of the 2 new top branches. All will eventually get this treatment.
They three and four weeks respectively from seeds.
Growth has been quite vigorous, with node branches from the 4th and 5th nodes level with the plant tops. I feel they're almost as fast as my winter DWC's, even though they're outside all day in our 95 degree Texas heat. Can't wait to see what coco will do inside during the winter under HID's
They're all getting watered twice a day, one heavy, and one light with 15ml of Botanicare Progrow per gal of tap water. The four oldest plants will go to flower next Tuesday, with two of them going into Jangles 4 days of <WTF> darkness. Just want to see if there is any difference. Anyway, that's enough of coco fun for this week. It's been fun so far, and if I can get rid of those #@* D#!^* bubblers this winter, and convert to coco, I'll be oh so happy...B

[scott06]

Brussles thanks for the well documented thoughtful posts on your grow...It's informative and interesting....your attention to detail awesome

[jangel]

Originally Posted by Brussels

Alrighty! During the past week, things have really picked up. After giving the kids a new home, they taken off. All plants except the 'runt' of the litter have been nipped at the sixth node, and three have been cut again at the 2nd node of the 2 new top branches. All will eventually get this treatment.
They three and four weeks respectively from seeds.
Growth has been quite vigorous, with node branches from the 4th and 5th nodes level with the plant tops. I feel they're almost as fast as my winter DWC's, even though they're outside all day in our 95 degree Texas heat. Can't wait to see what coco will do inside during the winter under HID's
They're all getting watered twice a day, one heavy, and one light with 15ml of Botanicare Progrow per gal of tap water. The four oldest plants will go to flower next Tuesday, with two of them going into Jangles 4 days of <WTF> darkness. Just want to see if there is any difference. Anyway, that's enough of coco fun for this week. It's been fun so far, and if I can get rid of those #@* D#!^* bubblers this winter, and convert to coco, I'll be oh so happy...B

ROTFLMAO! Thank you sweetie! I like that one! Just be careful with that though. I am not sure if I had an increased amount of hermies from doing that. I would do a shorter period, maybe 3 days to try it. And I don't know if I got any further ahead than if I had just put them out. Just my two centavos worth.

It will be a good trial test with a control though so I am looking foreward to seeing what happens.

Peace

[MercyEternity]

They look really nice Brussels; you are using only co-co for the substrate? Nothing else because I think I read that earlier but it is a little difficult to believe at this point. Do you think you use more or less nutrients with the co-co versus the cubes? Do you think the co-co could survive organics like compost tea with that much watering? I guess that is a tough one to determine. I read that it is mildew resistant and can be re-used a couple of times.

[Brussels]

Originally Posted by MercyEternity

They look really nice Brussels; you are using only co-co for the substrate? Nothing else because I think I read that earlier but it is a little difficult to believe at this point. Do you think you use more or less nutrients with the co-co versus the cubes? Do you think the co-co could survive organics like compost tea with that much watering? I guess that is a tough one to determine. I read that it is mildew resistant and can be re-used a couple of times.

Mercy, the grow medium is only coco with no additions. Growing in coco is in essence, doing a hydroponic grow with a solution saturated medium. The coco retains the solution as well as oxygen preventing the roots from drowning. <as I understand it>
The Botanicare products I'm using, are the same solutions I've used successfully in dwc grows in the past. They are completely organic, derived from: fish meal, composted sea bird guano, kelp, and many other natural ingredients. It is like feeding them with a compost tea. I don't think however that I'd try a 'home brewed' tea -- I'll leave that to the experts.
I'm not certain what you're asking about 'more or less nutrients': I'm sill using a little less than a 50% full strength for fully mature plants. This strain will not take heavy feeding. I've already noticed a bit of tip burn, and have backed off a tad...B

[MercyEternity]

Hi B well I guess what I meant about more or less is if you think the co-co utilizes the nutrients more than your last substrate. If the co-co seems more absorbent and a better carrier. It looks really interesting from everything I have read and your plants look great. They say co-co naturally has some nutrients. I am sure it is really light-weight and odorless for the most part. Your nutrients do sound like compost tea. Is the fish smell strong? My aunt uses fishmeal outside and it smells very........well it smells yucky.