400w CFL's vs. 400w HID??

Ok Pro's here is a question that just struck my curiousity..

Which would be cheaper on the electricity bill???

Many CFL's totaling 400w?

or

1 400w digital HID ballest setup?

or should we be compairing CFL Lumens to HID Lumens?

In any event I would think that with comparable light output between the 2 would show favor for the HID in electricity savings.

Thanks,

Sock

[ISO2BWELL]

Originally Posted by Sock

Ok Pro's here is a question that just struck my curiousity..
Which would be cheaper on the electricity bill???
Many CFL's totaling 400w?
or
1 400w digital HID ballest setup?
or should we be compairing CFL Lumens to HID Lumens?
In any event I would think that with comparable light output between the 2 would show favor for the HID in electricity savings.
Thanks, Sock

Sock...been in the bud a bit early today?

A Watt is a watt...so 400W HID or 400W of CFL is the same 400W's on your bill.

Hands down, go for the 400W HID. Small space and good reflective walls along with a decent air cooled hood and your ready to go!

Might be some minor cost differences to be found since you are running a exhaust fan on the light thqat likely draws a few watts...still, given the choice I would take the HID hands-down.

ISO

[scott06]

very good question - I'll try not to over do it here (but I am very excited about the results I got with CFL)

a watt is a measure of power or how much work is in certain amount of time...

so 400w is equal to 400w no matter what...CFL, incandecent or electric motor

Next CFL's produce less lumens of light and more heat per watt then HID's in genral
so why would anyone use CFL's

1. Don't need that many lumens so why get a big old 400w bulb
2. easy of purchase...get CFLs down the street w/o arousing suspicion or paying alot
3. light placement...you can move multiple CFLs to get optimum light placement and spectrum blend
4. though CFL's are hotter per watt, any individual bulb will not be all that hot for the safety of you and your plants
5. they don't humm
6. they don't need to be cooled

all that being said I know that HID will give you denser bigger buds watt per watt...but for some small grows CFL's are the bulb of choice for heat distibution, light spectrum blending, security, start-up costs, security...

one more thing to keep in mind...in genral bigger bulbs are more efficient in giving more lumens and less heat per watt for both CFL's and HID..that is why I like 125w individual CFL bulbs...for my setup (all you peeps don't have to reply to say HID's are better, in most cases they are, I am talking about very specific circumstances for CFL only)

to give credit - most of what I initially learned about CFL came directly from the CFL tutorial sticky on this site...I think it is one of the most helpful things I ever read about CFL (my first grows where all big HID's, I never even heard about CFL's until I saw it on this site) also a former post by "Roseman" gives what I think is an insightful analysis of when CFL's are more practical than HID

[scott06]

they cost the same for electral usage

Well this is a thread I was looking for some techy stuff...

Yes ISO, 400w is 400w, but was trying to look at many individual CFL ballast versus only 1 digital HID ballast.

YEs Scott there are many factors when choosing between the 2 and often CFL's are more managable for those on budgets, Let me ask you Scott, do you flower under CLF's?

Yes heat is a direct result of work being performed, so just for argument sake, would it not be fair to say that since 400w of CFL's produce more heat than a 400w HID, then the CFL's are working harder and just maybe using a little more energy within the ballast to have a XXXwatt light output?

Just tossing out some thoughts and thanks,

Sock

[ISO2BWELL]

Sock,

I think what would be really cool in a smaller compartment grow like you are doing is to use 3 of the 4, 6 or 8 lamp T-5 fixtures. One on top and one vertical on each of 2 sides, mounted in a frame that supports them vertically, and can be adjusted for side/top distance from the plants.

That little enclosure would freakin GLOW! Some good ventilation and you're all set. I would think the heat would be managable, and you are maxing the lumens in every square inch of that small space

My guess is you could also flower in there quite well under the 2700k T-5 lamps...maybe not like HID, but I bet it would be close!

ISO

[scott06]

heard good stuff about the T-5's from Iso and Jangel...now that is a powerful endorsement in my book

[ISO2BWELL]

Scott, I've never flowered under the CFL's or T-5's, so can't really speak to that with any experience other than an "I think so"...but the 4' T-5's I am vegging under do a sweet job!

For plants up to about 14" IMO they are as good as HID, in that the light covering is directly above each plant, and they don't have to go bending for the light, and they get all the lumens they want if you keep the lamps about 2-4" above the tops.

I've vegged under 1000W MH, 1000W HPS, 600W HPS and also a 72,000 lumens, 600W MH Conversion lamp. For shorter plants IMO the T-5's are much cheaper to run and equal to the task as any HID.


JMHO

ISO

[scott06]

Originally Posted by Sock

Let me ask you Scott, do you flower under CLF's?

Yes heat is a direct result of work being performed, so just for argument sake, would it not be fair to say that since 400w of CFL's produce more heat than a 400w HID, then the CFL's are working harder and just maybe using a little more energy within the ballast to have a XXXwatt light output?

Just tossing out some thoughts and thanks,

Sock

Yes I have flowed with success under CFL decent size budz w/ some density - not wispy - and decent harvest, better than High quality commercial stuff in my opinion, but not as good as the best high quality private grows -

400w CFLs are working just as hard as 400w HID...the HID is getting more light and less heat per unit of work done...light and heat are both radiation of electromagnetic waves and both can be considered work. Watts measure the total work done, not just the work you want

does that answer it or make it more confusing? and with the T-5 suggestion I really have no experience at all so that may be another option...just remember all of them will work, so you are picking amoung good options, there is no one best option

[ISO2BWELL]

Thinking in type here...

If you have 2 of the 400W, 4' T-5 fixtures, and measured the lumens in the corners of that 2' X 4' space, do you think the 400W HID would put as many lumens in that same space?

Guess what I am thinking is that the 400W HID is more effecient in it's function, but the T-5's might put more lumens on the actual plant spaces across a wider growing area.

Couldn't really do the test without a good lumen meter, but it would be interesting.

Is this idea

ISO

[jangel]

I know what you mean, ISO, and I think you are talking apples and oranges. Just the difference in the way the light shines makes it hard to judge. You would have to take a area equal to the way the light hit the surfaces so it would most likely be an elipse of a rounded nature, not a flat plane.

I love my T-5 and when I can afford it I will get another. I have grown using cfl's, floruescents of different sizes and I have a metal halide. I love the t-5's for maintaining temps and even growth. I also have a cfl bar in mine that I use now, with my big cfl unit turned off. It makes too much heat. For this time of year. It might be fine in the winter, but not now.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by ISO2BWELL

Sock,

That little enclosure would freakin GLOW! Some good ventilation and you're all set. I would think the heat would be managable, and you are maxing the lumens in every square inch of that small space

My guess is you could also flower in there quite well under the 2700k T-5 lamps...maybe not like HID, but I bet it would be close!

ISO

I totally agree ISO, yes my current space is small and the CFL's are a great way to complement that sapce.

However my question was in general terms and not so much the space involved. Looking for best BANG for the BUCK if you will.

If I can do a decent job in my little space w/ CFL's on a small budget, I'm wondering what I can do in a bigger space (say walk in closet) with HID's. There comes a point where $$$ spent of CFL's could equal a good HID. ***BIG IF*** the SPACE and quanity of grow warrents HID..

Ex: 3x3 area 8' tall, hydro, SOG scenerio. would you agree or disagree that HID would be more cost effective than CFL's?

PEace,

Sock

Originally Posted by scott06

Yes I have flowed with success under CFL decent size budz w/ some density - not wispy - and decent harvest, better than High quality commercial stuff in my opinion, but not as good as the best high quality private grows -

400w CFLs are working just as hard as 400w HID...the HID is getting more light and less heat per unit of work done...light and heat are both radiation of electromagnetic waves and both can be considered work. Watts measure the total work done, not just the work you want

does that answer it or make it more confusing? and with the T-5 suggestion I really have no experience at all so that may be another option...just remember all of them will work, so you are picking amoung good options, there is no one best option

Perfect sense Scott, and good info on the flowering aspect of CFL's..

Thanks,

Sock

[jangel]

Originally Posted by ISO2BWELL

Sock,

I think what would be really cool in a smaller compartment grow like you are doing is to use 3 of the 4, 6 or 8 lamp T-5 fixtures. One on top and one vertical on each of 2 sides, mounted in a frame that supports them vertically, and can be adjusted for side/top distance from the plants.

That little enclosure would freakin GLOW! Some good ventilation and you're all set. I would think the heat would be managable, and you are maxing the lumens in every square inch of that small space

My guess is you could also flower in there quite well under the 2700k T-5 lamps...maybe not like HID, but I bet it would be close!

ISO

ISO, I would take that in a new york minute. That would flower and grow like no tomorrow. I am telling you, for heat and just evenness of growth, and tight tight nodes I love the T-5's.

[jangel]

Hey Sock, the only way you will find the right answer is to try it. You can get a world of advise but until you use that info, it means squat to you. The most vital lesson is the one you learn yourself. And in time, you too can do it all!

Ain't it fun???

Originally Posted by jangel

ISO, I would take that in a new york minute. That would flower and grow like no tomorrow. I am telling you, for heat and just evenness of growth, and tight tight nodes I love the T-5's.

Hmmmm, Ohh my poor brain never quits churning information about...LoL

Sock

Originally Posted by jangel

Hey Sock, the only way you will find the right answer is to try it. You can get a world of advise but until you use that info, it means squat to you. The most vital lesson is the one you learn yourself. And in time, you too can do it all!

Ain't it fun???

You hit the nail on the head Jangel...

Journey on...

But this thread makes for good reading and maybe someone will find some use out of it.. Like ME...

Peace,

Sock

[jangel]

Originally Posted by Sock

Hmmmm, Ohh my poor brain never quits churning information about...LoL

Sock

LOL! Now he is totally confused! Sorry socks!!!

No I'm not CORN-Fused Jangel...

Just more ideas to tinker with... My current little grow area would be perfect for the vertical side T-5's and horozontial top T-5 bar...

If I closed the door, it would be like the friggen Space shuttle taking off in there...

Plants would be so happy, I would swear they were throwing a party...

All these ideas are great, keep Em' coming.

Sock

[jangel]

Originally Posted by Sock

No I'm not CORN-Fused Jangel...

Just more ideas to tinker with... My current little grow area would be perfect for the vertical side T-5's and horozontial top T-5 bar...

If I closed the door, it would be like the friggen Space shuttle taking off in there...

Plants would be so happy, I would swear they were throwing a party...

All these ideas are great, keep Em' coming.

Sock

I swear they are wonderful. Cheaper than a hid too, and a lot cooler. They do make some heat though so you still need air exhaust etc. Check out hidhut, Or PM iso and ask where he got his from. Good prices for you guys down in the U.S. I pay a lot more here and it burns me, pardon the pun. That is my main veg light and you saw the plants. Right now I have 11 clones under one 2 ft light with 4 tubes. Not much and less watts too.

Peace