Jangel DOES IN Fungas Gnats ~ The GP TRUE story! - GreenPassion.org - Dedicated to Medicinal Cannabis Cultivation and Education

jangel · #1 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 06:42 PM

I have to confess...and it pains me greatly, that I have the curse....no, NOT that one! Soil flies, fungas gnats, whatever you wish to call them, I have them in spades. This is the story of my crusade to KILL ALL OF THE LITTLE FRAKiN' THINGS!

These things take you by surprise. They come in either on other plants, on your clothes or in the soil you bring in, from outside. I beleive they came in on the one plant I am trying to regenerate. It only had a small root ball, and I repotted it, but now I think I really shouldn't of done it.

OR they came in on the harvested herb I brought into my grow room to dry. I do not have another area that I know no one will come upon so it has to be all done in one room. I have had fly paper up to be a check and first I saw one, then they where just there. These are slightly smaller than fruit flies. and they are black. Fruit flies are red or brown. Here are some pics of the little demons. It does not really matter how they came in, only matters now that I get rid of them.

What these little guys do is lay eggs in the soil, the larvae hatch and they burrow down and feed on the roots of the plants. It especailly likes moist areas, but can live through drought as well. I believe these little beggers are the reason I lost 3 of my bonsai's. The root zones where so small that any damaging muncher killed these little guys. I still have ONE left and it is the hardiest type of plant I had bonsai'ed so I beleive that is why it lived. It is not doing great either but it will come through I think. The root zone of the one plant had totally turned to mush. And these guys all died in ONE night.

As this subject has sparked many a thread, I am endeavoring to put it all together to help anyone that needs it to deal with them in the future.

Here are some pics of the adult flies caught on yellow sticky traps. I have found these (Safer - Sticky Stix's and Safer Sticky Strips ~ available pretty much everywhere they have houseplant bug products. NON- TOXIC!!!) I also used fly paper and they work, but they need to be down where the plants are to trap the adults, not on the cielings where you have to hang flypaper. These things are sticky as hell, and will stick to your plant's leaves, your fingers, your hair, anything they touch. The strips are sticky on both sides and the paper helps place them. What I did was cut up the Sticky Strips into squares, then into triangles. They come in 6 inch by 12 inch rectangles. Sticky on both sides. I found with the triangles I could place them on each plant pot, and then have an idea where the "wave" was. This is only part of the problem. The REAL problem is in the soil.

I have been reseaching this subject and this is what I have found:

Gnatoral is a recomended treatment. Couldn't find it anywhere in any garden centers in Oct in Canada.

I did find this at my Hydro store, Bless his hairy little head, THANK YOU TIM! This is a biological larvacide recommended by him for inside grows for our TOMATOE plants! LOL! He had it in the frig and in smaller bottles than available commercially. I will also post a link to the PDF file which is the specs on this stuff. As it is a live product, you must also keep it in the frig, so if you have small kids, be very careful as it looks like chocolate milk. And is toxic but does break down. It is organic, but not safe to eat or anything, like many things we give our plants. The warnings in the PDF file are wise to read. I do not know if you can get it in the U.S. Ask around, at your hydro store or follow the links I will add. The last pic is the VectoBac.

I mixed it as told on the label and have done EVERY PLANT including my clones. So far none have died. It looks so far like the new population is down a bit but it will take a day or so to see. These little blighters have a short life cycle and the fly's sole reason to live is to lay many many eggs on the soil of your plants. The traps help, but other than spraying an air born toxin into my grow room, it is all I can do. I refuse to do that.

One other thing I have learned is that to check to see how many larvae are in your soil, you can cut up squares of raW potatoe and lay them on the soil. It makes sense as all potatoes are is root fiber. Between 24 to 48 hours later you will see the larvae inbedded in the potatoe. Get rid of them. Doesn't matter if they are squares or slices or french fry sized. They must be in contact or slightly dug into the soil so no light penetrates. I am in the midst of doing this. Bit by bit I will get every last one. The VectoBac can be used every week or every watering, until they are gone.

Here the link to the PDF file: VectoBac PDF File

Here is a link to the makers of this product: Valent BioSciences

jangel · #2 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 07:11 PM

Here is what it has done to my plants. First is my lone bonsai. Then my veg area, and then my flowering girls. You will see the yellow traps all over all of them. I mean business. And if this does not work, I might have to take clones of everything and take them somewhere else in the house and get rid of ALL the soil in the grow room, every root ball, crumble of dirt to defeat these buggers. I have not found any on my clones, as they are in rapid rooters and perlite. But they need potting up, and I am hesitating doing that with these things. Hopefully the bugs don't like that media. I have a pair of plants in my flower room, WW crosses, and I know they need repotting but I think they are the ones that brought them into the flower area so do not want to transplant until the bugs are gone. Less VectoBac to use and easier in a smaller pot to get rid of, I hope. I also have 4 HGS Blueberry, my fav, I was going to start a thread on that I am waiting to see if these will be affected. This is killing me! I have traps in everything and they have all been treated so that is all I can do for now. The last few are some of what I am trying to save....hope ya like em!

Wish me luck folks! ...and if you have something to add, please do!

Comments as well.

ileso · #3 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 08:20 PM

hi jangel

these gnats.. they look like the ones i have in my pots...
should i get rid of them? cause i dont think thay are doing and damage, or maybe these ones arent the same... ill try to take a pic so you can tell me

jangel · #4 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 08:35 PM

Ileso, here is another link to a site that shows a really good pic of them. If you have them, you should try to get rid of them as they can kill your plant. Defineatly slow it down and make the buds smaller. Yours are outside though. There might be other balances then Ileso, outside, where inside there is none. Just do not bring one with them inside, or you will have them every where.

Fungas Gnat Management

Kieahtoka · #5 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 08:55 PM

I had this problem once in a revegging plant of mine, I picked it up one day and (more than) hundreds of the buggers took off as soon as I picked up the pot. I used a pyrethrin spray which took care of most of them, then a permethrin spray(on soil only of course) which ended their reign. On the next watering of that plant I flushed it to make sure no pesticide residue would be left in the soil. pyrethrin should be safe take care of any that return seeing as it is not long lasting and leaves no residue.

ileso · #6 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 09:00 PM

yes, thats them all right... when i move indoor ill have to do some cleaning i see, now im beginning to feel what the difficulty is with indoors, the ecosystem can get unballanced by things that outdoors one doesnt give a second thought to

thanks love

kailiwela44 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-27-2008, 10:05 PM

I've read on ICmag that to help combat those bugs use a layer of perlite to cover the soil on top. If i can remember correctly, it does not allow an adequate environment for the bugs to stay. I'll do my best to look for it again and post the link here.

kailiwela44

jangel · #8 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kailiwela44

I've read on ICmag that to help combat those bugs use a layer of perlite to cover the soil on top. If i can remember correctly, it does not allow an adequate environment for the bugs to stay. I'll do my best to look for it again and post the link here.

kailiwela44

I have heard of this. When saturnlily first joined she had perlite over the soil on her plants. I don't know if it helps. If you find the link, I would like to read the thread.

Peace

jonnyappleweed · #9 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 11:06 AM

Can I throw out my 2 cents,
I have finally found that NEEM product that was recommended in a book I have,I went to a few nurseries in my area and these people looked at me as if I were speaking Romulin or something and they had never heard of it.
Well last month when I was at LOWE's I just happened to see the NEEM on the label,pulled it down and discovered this may be a wonder "CURE ALL" we've been looking for:
NEEM Concentrate is a 3 in 1 product,It's a INSECTICIDE,FUNGICIDE and MITICIDE for ORGANIC gardening

Use on fruits,nuts,vegetables,herbs,spices,roses,HOUSEPLA NTS,flowers,
trees and shrubs.

FUNGICIDE USE:
For prevention an control of various fungal diseases including
powdery mildew,blackspot,downy mildew,anthracnose,rust,leaf spot,botrytis,needle rust,scab,and flower,twig,and tipblight,and alternaria.

INSECTICIDE/MITICIDE USE:
For control of aphids,spider mites,scale,whiteflies,beetles,leafrollers,and other insect pests.

Mixture ratio is the same for either use @ 2 tlbs(1oz) per gal of water.
Spray to saturate including undersides of leaves,mix while applying.

jangel · #10 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyappleweed

Can I throw out my 2 cents,
I have finally found that NEEM product that was recommended in a book I have,I went to a few nurseries in my area and these people looked at me as if I were speaking Romulin or something and they had never heard of it.
Well last month when I was at LOWE's I just happened to see the NEEM on the label,pulled it down and discovered this may be a wonder "CURE ALL" we've been looking for:
NEEM Concentrate is a 3 in 1 product,It's a INSECTICIDE,FUNGICIDE and MITICIDE for ORGANIC gardening

Use on fruits,nuts,vegetables,herbs,spices,roses,HOUSEPLA NTS,flowers,
trees and shrubs.

FUNGICIDE USE:
For prevention an control of various fungal diseases including
powdery mildew,blackspot,downy mildew,anthracnose,rust,leaf spot,botrytis,needle rust,scab,and flower,twig,and tipblight,and alternaria.

INSECTICIDE/MITICIDE USE:
For control of aphids,spider mites,scale,whiteflies,beetles,leafrollers,and other insect pests.

Mixture ratio is the same for either use @ 2 tlbs(1oz) per gal of water.
Spray to saturate including undersides of leaves,mix while applying.

Hey Jonny. I have some of that as well, but it only kills the flying ones, the adults. The larvae are in the soil and hard to kill. Unless you get those you still have the problem. I will try that on some of my plants, but I don't really want to spray my buds with Neem oil. I will see how this works with the traps and bio larveacide.

jonnyappleweed · #11 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 12:26 PM

I have also heard you can put a layer of sand to prevent them,you can apply NEEM oil to the soil,use a cut out gal milk jug to shield lower buds and soak the soil surface.
that should kill emerging larva and egglaying adults...

Peace

jangel · #12 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 12:29 PM

I will see how the stuff I used has worked first. I really don't want to kill all my plants, and doing too much could do just that. It is getting less, and they are smaller so we will see!

Thanks Jonny

A.Nonnymuss · #13 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 01:11 PM

Within the last 2 months I was inundated with those bugs. My plants did in fact get majorly stunted growth.

I relied heavily on the sticky strips alone at first and that was a HUGE MISTAKE.

I then got some gnatrol spray. The combo worked good for the first couple days. Then it was like gnats on crack and ecstacy in asia.... swarms all over.

I went out and got Beneficial Nematodes to put in the soil to eat the gnat eggs. I saw no benefit.

I found No-Pest Strips mentioned and those actually worked good for a week or so. The thought of poison around my kitties and my gf rubbed me the wrong way so no mas.

I have since resorted to perlite on top of the soil in the containers. It has actually worked in ridding the gnats. However, with my oscillating fan, I now have perlite all over the floor of my grow tent as well as a very light perlite dust all over everything inside, including buds....

Moving forward...

2 weeks ago, I started a fresh batch of organic soil. I included a big qt size container of diatomaceous earth to the soil mix. supposedly the little larvae eat the d.earth and it cuts them up to death. If only I could film them all dying..

Im also watering the plants less often. In addition, I am going to use green sand instead of perlite.

I also saw Predatory Mites as a remedy, but man those were freakin expensive to buy and ship. so I dont know how well those work.

I read about Neem Oil too but just didnt feel like having one more spray to deal with at the end of the day.

Hope that helps someone.

jangel · #14 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 02:15 PM

That is great, A. I am very interested in the green sand. Can you tell me more about it? I have not heard of this being used instead of perlite. Also, one warning: PERLITE IS DANGEROUS ENHALED That is one reason I have not used it in this way. It can cause lung problems and has been said to be almost as harmful as vermiculite. so be very careful, my friend. I would vacuum up any excess and ware a mask in your tent. Just to be on the safe side.

That poisen, airborne, is why I did not get airesol cans of bug stuff to spray on my girls. I just can't do it. It goes too much against my organic grain! LOL! Neem is not supposed to be harmful so if I have to I will try it, but I am going to use up the VectoBak first. Give that a good try first, then we will know what works. if it does. It wasn't too bad as far as cost, $19.99 Canadian.

peace

A.Nonnymuss · #15 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 02:46 PM

Cut/paste from wikipedia

Properties and uses

The green colour of greensand is due to variable amounts of the mineral glauconite, an iron potassium silicate with very low weathering resistance; as a result, greensand tends to be weak and friable. It is a common ingredient in garden fertilisers, such as in organic gardening and organic farming. Due to its chemical exchange properties, the glauconite of greensand is used as a water softener. Greensand coated with manganese oxide, known as manganese greensand, is used in well water treatment systems to remove insoluble ferric (oxidized) iron and manganese. It is also used as a type of rock for stone walls in areas where greensand is common.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Its not my idea. I actually read about using sand from a google search. Same idea as perlite in that the gnats dont want to crawl through the sand to get to soil, only little to no dust and you get the benefit of iron and manganese as well.

PS thanks for the tip on perlite. Ill be vacuuming that crap up sometime this week.

tokecrazy · #16 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 07:45 PM

Hi everybody,Yes green sand is use to aerate the soil too.It helps in holding water for the roots and just what nonnymuss posted too.I lot of poeple that have gardens with hard soil more on the clay side and low water retaining,They tilt in green sand to losen up the soil and help hold water.You have done all you can do to kill the things and if you use more and other stuff you will do more damage then good.You going to have to wait and see.Sometimes it take longer for the stuff to work and it's getting cold up there too. Good Luck. Peace

jangel · #17 (**permalink**) 10-28-2008, 09:03 PM

Thanks toke. That is what I figured. The numbers on the traps have not increased signafacantly, and the ones that are caught seem to be smaller, so there might be fewer hatching. I will keep up this treatment and see how it goes.

Peace

halflingsleaf · #18 (**permalink**) 11-30-2008, 02:29 PM

I have had great success with Peppermint tea. make a strong cup of the stuff with two bags like your going to drink it, then dump the cup after steeping for a fewminutes into @ 2 gallons of water.. mix it up it will have a sickly yellow color, use this to water your infested plants it will clear up the eggs and larvae, and maintain your sticky trap defenses for the adults.

fungus gnats live 4months and lay eggs the whole time, if you unpot an infested plant, you will see thousands of white eggs throughout the soil, and the larvae eat the roots.

It is a cheap organic way to clear up the problem, and you can enjoy it too.. and it smells awsome.

H

jangel · #19 (**permalink**) 11-30-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halflingsleaf

I have had great success with Peppermint tea. make a strong cup of the stuff with two bags like your going to drink it, then dump the cup after steeping for a fewminutes into @ 2 gallons of water.. mix it up it will have a sickly yellow color, use this to water your infested plants it will clear up the eggs and larvae, and maintain your sticky trap defenses for the adults.

fungus gnats live 4months and lay eggs the whole time, if you unpot an infested plant, you will see thousands of white eggs throughout the soil, and the larvae eat the roots.

It is a cheap organic way to clear up the problem, and you can enjoy it too.. and it smells awsome.

H

Thank you so much for adding this! I will give it a go! Wonder how much I will need for 10 gal of water? LOL!

And again, Welcome to Green Passion!
I love picking people's brains for new things to try!
Very glad you are here!

And thank you for adding to Green Passion's wisdom!

Peace

halflingsleaf · #20 (**permalink**) 11-30-2008, 03:43 PM

1 teabag per gallon i guess it comes out too.. there is a spray bottle in one of my pictures that has some ucky looking water in it.. that is my peppermint tea, i have sprayed it on the soil prior to watering the last two times nad i think as of now i am Gnat free.. i changed my stcikypaper lastnight, and not a single adult today or any larvae swarming when i water..