Obama just released this today



Peace

It's about time change is defined!

Do you know;
The Global Poverty Act is a bill sponsored by presidential candidate SENATOR Barack Obama. The legislation would mandate the United States to spend 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, equaling about $845 billion in additional aid over the next 13 years. And dont forget, The GPA also will require us to sign the UN's millenium declaration; which means America will have to ban small arms! Meaning private gun ownership. Obama also supports S.1959! THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN REGAURDLESS OF THE ELECTION OUTCOME.

And, just a little trivia fact;
Obama is Dick Cheney's 8th cousin, making him(obama) G.W.Bush' 11 cousin! (Cheney is G.W's 3rd cousin)
And George Bush Sr. is the Queen of Englands 13th cousin!!

Look it up; it's all true

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

This guy says it pretty well;

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

and somewhere here in between, the alarm should terminated the silence with devastating bluster...

And does this election then make S-1959 in any form or shape constitutional?! NO. Does this not disqualify Obama to be a legitimated President of the United States of America - a defender of the constitution and his peoples freedom and prosperity - and any choice to consider?! How can it be that such an enemy of the american citizens becomes the presidential choice of the Democratic Party?! How can it be that a kinsman of the queen - queen of an kingdom once bravely kicked out of this nations territories - becomes a possible future president?!!!

Ever skinned the cat in that way? Interesting what an alarming picture then revivals itself to the alert observer, or not?

Steady decay of citizen rights until we end in a totalitarian state that will finally end then in an totalitarian one world government ("millennium act" as one of the last steps) under something that formed out of the UN - something no sane person would vote for as it means for us only slavery.

peace

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

Damn right green!

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

I am not so sure that the right to bear arms is an actual constitutional right

if I recall the words are "a well armed militia being necessary to the defence of the nation? the right to bear arms shall not be abridged" is that correct?

so what are arms? certainly you don't mean nuclear arms or RPG's? do you
if so we are clear that this right not an absolute right

also the historical context of a citizens militia was set in an agrarian culture...by the civil war this had already changed

I think this is something that reasonable people can disagree about without being disagreeable

Also in terms of world governance and the errosion of individual rights...yes in some ways this is happening and it is something to be very concerned about

but at the same time many people around the world are enjoying and increase in individual rights as the slavery in everything but name for poor farmers and farm workers is tranformed by the world economy...in some places...and of course in others conditions are getting worse

it seems to me that nation states are an instituttion in its decendancy....what will replace it....well from the little I know about green and will....I have some hope that there are plenty of people that will not let tyranny rule.

[quote=scott06;61144]I am not so sure that the right to bear arms is an actual constitutional right

if I recall the words are "a well armed militia being necessary to the defence of the nation? the right to bear arms shall not be abridged" is that correct?

so what are arms? certainly you don't mean nuclear arms or RPG's? do you
if so we are clear that this right not an absolute right

also the historical context of a citizens militia was set in an agrarian culture...by the civil war this had already changed quote]


The right to keep and bear arms, or right to bear arms is the concept that people, individually or collectively, have a right to weapons. Today this is usually interpreted to mean personal guns or the arming of a state militia. This is an important concept in the United States, where the right is protected in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, drafted in 1791, and where the right derived from popular conceptions of English law around the American Revolution, including a tradition of local militias, a common law right to possess weapons, the English Bill of Rights (1689) and a statute, the Assize of Arms, dating back to 1181.

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United StatesConstitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the pre-existing individual right to possess and carry weapons (i.e. "keep and bear arms") in case of confrontation. Codification of the right to keep and bear arms into the Bill of Rights was influenced by a fear that the federal government would disarm the people in order to impose rule through a standing army or select militia since history had shown the way tyrants eliminated resistance to suppression of political opponents was to simply take away the people's arms and make it an offense to keep them. In District of Columbia v. Heller (June 26, 2008), the Supreme Court ruled that self-defense is a central component of the right.
Before the Heller decision, there was much disagreement as to whether it protected a collective right or an individual right, because the amendment begins with a prefatory clause that refers to a "well regulated militia." Previously, the Supreme Court had not directly addressed the amendment, or had only done so in limited or ambiguous terms.
Because the District of Columbia, which is not a state, was the only government involved in Heller, uncertainty remains concerning whether the Second Amendment applies to state and local jurisdictions by way of incorporation through the Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV; one of the post-Civil War Reconstruction Amendments, first intended to secure the rights of former slaves. It guarantees the due process and equal protection of each state's laws. It was proposed on June 13, 1866, and was ratified on July 9, 1868.
The amendment provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford which had excluded slaves and their descendants from possessing Constitutional rights. The amendment requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all persons within their jurisdictions and was used in the mid-20th century to dismantle racial segregation in the United States, as in Brown v. Board of Education.)

June 8, 1789.
The original text of what became the Second Amendment, as brought to the floor of the House of Representatives of the first session of the First Congress was:The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.

5 changes later;
The House voted on September 21, 1789 to accept the changes made by the Senate, but the Amendment as finally entered into the House journal contained the additional words "necessary to" . The 2nd amendment, as passed by the House & Senate reads: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate, reads:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
The original and copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, had different capitalization and punctuation:
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
Both versions are commonly used in official government publications.



Also see;
The National Firearms Act of 1934
The Federal Firearms Act of 1938
The Gun Control Act of 1968
The McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

It is a simple to answer question: under which situation was the constitution written? it was written after an end to the british oppression of the 13 colonies, therefore under the impression of the end of an totalitarian government form and i will bet my butt that they had not the safety of a government in mind back then but the safety of the citizen. And therefore it is all to logic that they meant private gun owner ship and nothing else. besides, it was common back then for a colonist to join a milisha to fight the reds (nothing to do with indigenous). And why shouldn't citizen bear arms, arms safeguard our nations sovergnities and so they do as well in the case of the citizen. If you give this part of you away the rest will follow in the same momment and you given a number.

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

[quote=willtrib;61164]
well, the ban in DC is over as far as i know, the judges followed the argumentation that citizens of DC are also US citizens and therefore have the right to bear arms as any other citizen has.

besides, the cost of an single US made A-bomb will drive away most potential buyers, so it is hagwash if not someone gets the bright idea to shop in Russia. and to the RPG, why not - sure a bit of an overkill on paper targets, but if you want one the current black market will serve you - naturally they now end up in the hands we rather don't want them to end up, but this is what happens in a prohibition and it never solved any problems.

lets move away from telling each other what you can't do and switch to learning to respect each other in daily life. If we are true then in reality the object of anger is never the true problem or cause, it is just a skapegoat for the fact that we won't want to voice: the lack of respect for someone else and their property. This moral problem along with the big social unrest we have today is a mix for disaster if we don't come to our senses soon.

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

clearly will and green understand this issue, and even if I don't entirely agree, I appreciate the educatation

we don't always have to agree on each and every thought or theory we come up with and as long as we respect the right to differ as well as the right to present person viewpoint this will be just fine.

okay, i don't accept it if someone is promoting totalitarian ideas, especially without even noticing. On such issues i might react out of the heat from time to time and i'm sorry if i run someone over doing so, but the word of warning is needed here as these ideas are sneaked into our mind on daily bases by "our" dearly caring media. Just take the latest CNN spin on S-1959 and youtube censoring following this moronic and dangerous proposal - they not telling you what it is really about: your right to free speech - they spin it into something to reduce Islamic propaganda which it clearly isn't. It is a law designed to abolish the first amendment of the constitution!

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

disagreeing without being disagreable is realtatively new to me...but I am learning to like it....and no doubt there has been a real errosion of rights and liberty in the last 7 or so years in the old USA...its hard for me to get a handle on it....and I feel its a good thing my view is evolving, nudged by the political post at GP..if you keep posting I'll keep reading with an open mind

what keeps us safe from terrorists is the Constitution, you take the amendments away and were terrorists. Look at any text from people who knew politics, the french, the early New Americans and they all say: Under any circumstance all of the empires that decide to take away rights for security and prosperity, get neither; As well as, ending up using the same violent acts against those to protect "Us" against us. All empires fall very quickly..their just prolonging the time between, I mean were already playing with Monopoly money(No value without anything in the federal reserve, Even though its a booming part of the Government at the moment. I dont buy into the whole Holocaust all over, but Human life is very profitable(As well as death).

I feel its impossible to "Evolve" when democracy is ignored, and the freedoms we brag about are prohibited; Not to mention the top presidential candidates and their VP's. When I mention them I refer to their ideals, what theyve done and currently do.

Believe it or not I hate guns, I don't hunt ect, I think it is crazy a person can buy a Machine gun, even a hand gun(they are specificly made to kill the human).....But like in New Orleans; we just now have a new law that says it is illegal to buy/ sell mach ine g uns before we really had mach. g un stores! the rational for the law was a young criminal who when pulled over had one. A complete short cut to thinking! stupid law! why? all they did was make one for a criminal cost a $1000 more; & only because the seller (another criminal) saw an excuse for a mark up. & murder rate is up. The only folk who pay att. to any law, are the law abiding; you see?

Sociologiclly, following this pattern, in the end all you may have are cops, and criminals; as law abiding folk go extinct.

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☼ Nos non pluris sumus quam bullae ☼

it is a process that started earlier then that, the past 7 years present only the current peak. before we had all kinds of infringements of civil rights granted by the constitution, just go back to Clinton and all the stuff done by that administration - or why Bush used the shield of an humble foreign policy and reduction of government. Or lets go to the 50's and the hunt for comunist witch hunt, you really thing this was all about comunists? It was an attack on the freedom of speech and political choice - the comunist back then had at least the desency to revil themself as those and therefor never post a real thread as todays pose, but never the less they used this tool to shut everyone up that would stick to the offical status quo. Or lets travel even further back to introduction of the SSN - numbers reduce the human face to nothing and let the individual be governed the "Masters" - 1935, first only on request to get us used to the number and then by force, now you can not do without it anymore. It all started long before our time and we only fuzz about the latest madness they come up with, and again without taking any action to stop it.
And why don't we stop em? Just look at the information they feed us: S-1959 is to fight the islamistic terror. We all know here that it isn't about terror, it is about shutting us up, ending politcal disent - it is the Tiananmen Square all over again only that the tank is now a curuped law but the effect will be the same as back then.

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

why are criminals called criminals again - maybe because they disobey any law? so how can a law stop a criminal?!

to add a extra punishment - well that is the feel-good medicine of some though moron. if someone is illegaly carring a firearm along it is well punished offense already, so why punishing the same crime twice?! You said yourself that this pattern will lead only to one thing: there will be LEO and there will be use, the collective "criminals" and no citizens.

again, we have a transfer tax in most US states on items as silencers and automatic weapons - these taxes been introduced to reduce the amount of legally sold items in theory. the turnout in the 30's was totally different as no ordinary work had now the $200 for the stamp added to the sale of a silencer but the mob still had that kind of money and the entire effect was that the common citizen couldn't buy any of the stuff but the criminal would continue to do so.
You should see the law in New Orleans for the other side as well - there may be legal owners of such weapons, someone that had the money for all the tax stems and tranfer taxes, that ends up now being a criminal due to his legaly accwired gun.

Besides willtrib, remeber one of the first drafts of the consitiution, it said that no one should be forced against their personal believes to bear arms, if you don't know em, fine with me. You don't like them, well how can you dislike something you don't know?

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

With all debate aside, wouldn't it be the rat's ass if the Empire fell because the military was too widely spread to resist the "barbarians" and the citizens could not resist because they had no weapons thanks to the Emporer? These jokers are so afraid of their own people that they would risk losing everything to the barbarians. History shows us time and again what the results of this gamble will inevitably be: the fall of the Empire. No empire that has ever existed was immortal, and restricting citizen arms was the cause of the fall because the Empire (whichever one you would chose) could not finance a standing army forever.

Later,
4kaan4

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I am an incorrigible, pathological fantasizer fabricating illusionary amusements for various individuals. In other words I lie like a politician. I refuse to break the law because I intend to live my life till the day I die!

also a great viewpoint at the current problem, guess that why the constitution mentions a milisha and not an army... on the other hand is that a tactical limitation then as well as no standing trained personal is then available, so no officers that take command for example which would make a milisha pretty ineffective and uncoordinated - lesson still known from revolutionary day, where colonist that been former officers in the british army had to take charge, so if these people would have served under the british in the first place there would have been no trained officers around and history might have taken a different path.

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Keep the gun oiled and the thumb green!

I don't own a gun, but my man does. I feel safer knowing that, and I don't even know where it is. It is apart. I know my nieghbors have guns. I also know they safely use them. I feel safer knowing that. Also, in the country, I would call for help to the gun touting nieghbor over the bible thumper. You can never keep the guns from the criminals. Just hope you can match them.

Peace

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Life,
j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


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