absolutley right one hundred percent

thats all that it is....well except the oldest record of world history so far is in there to...what you have to relize is that as an individual you are able to freely make your own decisions...but when people get into herds its natural behiavior to have a leader and/or a code of conduct...an when people who are easily persuaded are introduced to the group, membership grows...an then more people are like "well look at that theres 200 people there talking about this or that" mabbe i should have a look.. bam another member so on an so forth..peace

Interesting comments. Wow, this thread really took off tonight while I was out flushing plants!

A thought on the above...

I have studied the Bible from many viewpoints, including from the Greek and Hebrew texts. No, I don't read Hebrew or Greek..I used a good Concordance, and spent years with my nose in that one unbelievable work.

At first glance, I would like to be 100% in agreement with midgradeindasouth, however I can tell you the Bible (I studied KJV) is more than just a book of stories...there IS something Supernatural about it..

I spent many years searching to that special something that was just overpowering, and finally stepped back to re-consider my faith and efforts. I haven't hardly opened one in several years, now, but they still (I have close to 20) are on the shelf, along with a couple thousand (my weak spot) other books.

Now, I no longer claim to hold to 100% Christian doctrines, nor would I, in general, even call myself a Christian. I would rather be in the "undecided" category than considered as a hypocrite and lie not only to myself, but others. It was a very difficult decision to leave Bible College, however, on my way home that day I stopped and bought a carton of Camels and a 40 oz. Jug of Yukon Jack (I had had neither for a loonngg time and felt I was due..LOL)

I offer this to those who do not believe in a "Hereafter" of any sort..

It makes absolutely no sense that we would live our lives and learn more each day and be, FINALLY considered as "Wise" by the time we are aged...and then for it all to just vanish in a whiff of smoke when our physical bodies die?. Makes -0- logic, whatsoever. No, there IS something after this life..now as to what, where or in what form our Spirits will live on I have no idea.

Great discussion!

ISO

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I am glad I am not the only one that spend many many hours with the Bible Greek, Hebrew, Jewish and English in front of me. A good concordance and Lexicon. Looking up and translating every word. That is a lot of work.

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What I freely have been given let me freely share

If you have beliefs that contradict science then you have to ask "what is stronger my faith or the scientific proof?" Reconciling these to very different thing lead to great inner struggles for me.

I have faith I have beliefs and I also have fact and have found a way to make them all work for me. I am against organized religion of any flavor. I have also seen positive and negative effects religions have had on people. But what I believe and strive for in my own heart works for me. Took about 20 years to get there though.

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any similarity my posts have to reality are purely coincidental. I love to steal pics from the net and post them as my own after using a photo editor on them. As usual the Lizard is a lier and talks out his butt.

lol i was kidding but hopefully im already there

<~~~ not into the organized religion thing .... whole fam is Christian though.

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Regard,
Closet-DWC

And remember just try and act NORML

You can simply use the word spirituality to explain inner peace, a higher power. Spirituality is connection to all thoughts and matter around you to create one, metaphoricly unified energy. theres a billion different ways to explain it too, which is awsome.

hmmm

Spirituality, consists of our thoughts, feelings, sense of wonder, imagination, etc.,,

Religion, is a set of rituals (which change somewhat, depending upon the leadership), that IMHO has gotten completely out of hand. Religion is, and always has been, just another way of a few elitists to control the masses. Just like governments, "religious" leaders set the rules, by which they take our money and our "souls", to make themselves more powerful and wealthier.

One thing is for sure; If there is 'life after death', most 'souls' are going to have a big surprise, when they find out what is real.

Pappy

just as long as 'spiritual' doesnt interfere with science its cool.
neither science can explain the spiritual, nor can the spiritual explain science.
i seriously believe in the spiritual, its not something you need to proove either, you know it exists but there is no phisical proof. it defies science, but coexists in it.
but so long as no-one tries to sell me an omnipresent intelligent being that controls all living things etc made the universe and populated it, well, its whats called a myth. it has served its purpose, it explained to primitive man our creation. its an old myth but it doesnt men its true. people used to think women were some sort of retarded human beings with little or no intelligence to speak of, but that doesnt meen its true.
i mean i respect the god type of faith as long as no-one tries to sell me it. just because i dont believe in spin offs of sun god faiths doesnt meen im not spiritual though, but i like to keep a clear head about it all.

just so long as (like i said) science and religion doent try to explain one another...

peace all, just thought id give one of my points of view on spirituality, i have a few, alot of them conflictuous actually, but that what i like about spirituality, or belief, its impossible to really pinpoint the truth, but you believe anyway

especially if you like me explore beyond the physical...

Ileso, is this what you are trying to say..?

"Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

I find that true of "Faith", as that to me is the definition. Why need faith if you can prove, empirically, that a hypothesis is either valid, or invalid?

Kinda takes all the fun out of it.

Faith....kinda like George Bush actually believing his financial policies were good for America...now THAT took faith.

ISO

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spot on

I personally have never been a religous person. I am highly spiritual though. I feel closer to my higher power in a forest than I have ever felt in a building, church or whatever. Many of my friends are "Born Again".

Maybe this explains it more: A friend of mine one day asked me to come over, saying she had something to tell me. While in conversation with her I mis understood what she was saying. I thought she has said she was born again. No, what she has said is that she was gay. I was very upset to think that she has taken to religion this way, it was not the correct aspect for her. It did not fit. When I finally understood what she was telling me, I had a big feeling of relief. It was only she was gay. I don't know why I felt this way, but I did. I felt she would be decieving her core beliefs going born again, but going gay, was upholding them, and being honest.

I don't know if this makes sense, but it does to me. I do what I feel in my soul and heart is right. And this is not always the easiest route, believe me. My honesty has got me into more hot water, and lost me jobs even, and my marriage. But I have to do what I feel is right and be true to that spirtuality that is in me, a core set of values, that my heart and soul knows.

I have seen so called "religous" people and how they operate. One "born again" freind of mine when spliting with her abusive husband, a lay minister, was threatened with death, with the death of her son and her other children if she did not "cleave" to her husband. and this by another pastor. This is religion in my view and I will have none of it. One set of rules for the people and another for the ministry.

This is only my opinion. One other thing I know: As has been stated, energy is niether created nor destroyed, it just changes state. I know that those that have passed still exist. In some form. And that at times we feel their love.

This gives me much comfort.

peace

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Life,
j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


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I believe that being religious requires that you adhere to a certain religion, but being spiritual only requires that you believe that you have a spirit/soul/life energy that can be shaped or focused. I'm a pagan (heathen) of the nordic traditions, but not very religious. I do go to church occasionally (Unitarian Universalist), but go to help my spirit, not to worship or connect with a diety. I feel that I am very spiritual however as I try to connect with my soul and the souls of others. God/the universe/ the web of Wyrd doesn't care if it is worshipped.

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I refuse to be quiet in the name of peace. Peace without justice is tyranny!!

everyone has a spirit, whether or not their conscious of it. Not everyone has a religion though; even with religion, not everyone is spiritually conscious.