You don't have to be "churchy" to love YHWY or attempt to follow him. The mainstream Christians have done more to hurt true Christianity that satan ever could! God did say that all green herb bearing seed would be for food!

-the Corsican.

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My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

god didnt say sht. we put the words in his mouth.

but the general teaching of any religion - being a good person and love - is a good thing... so its not all bad.

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That's an opinion and I'm cool with that but I believe in a Creator who has made contact with his creation that transcends the mystical. Sure, metaphysical truths and experiences are part of the human experience but it gets more mind blowing then that. All religions (spiritual paths) are not equal and all are not true. That's just a very observable fact. People used to worship Moloch and throw their children into the fire. Same thing with Druids and Mayans. I don't want anything to do with religion like that. There are some very brutal things contained in the Old Testament that make more than just uncomfortable. But with anything that is important to you you have to dig deep and seek understanding.

One thing is for sure, people shouldn't be killing each other in God's name.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

very true, we really should take the responsibilty for killing and war on our own shoulders... god isnt a scapegoat.
though he(?) is an easy one cause hes never around to defend himself. (one of the things that put me off religion as a whole at an early age was when i realised something fundamentally wrong with the whole business of these 'crusade' type things... catholics kill in gods name, muslims too... i guess hebrews kill in defense of YWH... why is it these three religions kill each other then if we all worship the same dude? maybe we should all just go back to worshiping the original sun god this one evolved from so that we can learn to get along.. or is that bad for business?)

as for christianity etc you really have to dig deap. like you said, and learn to read between the lines of all the stories in there... after all its all stories. but where im getting at is that there are lessons in the stories. the underlying lessons in most 'mainstream' religions are the same. be a good person. its true for christianity islam, judaism, buhdism, etc etc.... and yeh, like i said alseware there will always be twisted PEOPLE... (sacrificial offerings etc) but its really all fundamentally about spirituality. if we were all born in afghanistan the odds are we would be muslims. or maybe even one of the old pagan religions the taliban somehow didnt anihilate.
if you were born in the same place a few centuries back you'd be buhdist... a few centuries before.. who knows.
if your born in a western culture your some sort of christian, a few centuries ago you'd be some sort of pagan i suppose, if your from the middle east today it will depend on what family your born into to be either catholic, jewish or muslim. a few centuries ago you could only be either catolic or jewish in the same region, a few centuries before that youd be jewish or some other maybe a sun worshiper. it does shed a bit of shadow over the whole validity of mass religions.. or popular religions... and no real space for spirituality and free thought.. religions like all things come and go evolve and morph ...

anyway like you said its an opinion.

but to say that one is BETTER than another. .. well thats where religion becomes a tricky thing. who's to say which is better? is there any better? i mean wouldnt it be funny if we all die and find out that god is in fact a multi armed being with wings and a goats head that wont let us into heaven cause we are catholic or muslim?

my opinion goes so far as to say that our best bet for spiritually fulfilling lives is to be open and accepting of other peoples belief systems. this doesnt mean you have to believe what others do. but simply accept that diversity is one of the more beautiful things life has to offer.

hell santa clause is the remnant of a nordic war god associated with the ingestion of certain types of mushroom. how this ever became a childrens character goes to show just how religion is a concept that is in constant flux.

hell even catholics cant get their stories straight. how many versions of that are there?

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Hey brother,

I believe there is a fundamental flaw in your belief that the one supreme God is a representation of the sun. My studies have proved otherwise (to me at least). And you say "they're just stories" and archaeology has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are much more than stories of fantasy. Being born among Muslims or Christians does not mean that is what you will believe though it does heavily influence your belief. If that assumption were true then there wouldn't be spiritual conversions to other faiths occurring all over the world at this very moment.

"but to say that one is BETTER than another. .. well thats where religion becomes a tricky thing. who's to say which is better? is there any better?"

Well that's the rub, isn't it? I wouldn't use the word "better". I prefer true. Some religions (speaking in spiritual terms and not organized terms) are in fact based on complete fantasy and others are not. Some are very factual in some ways but completely false in others. I'm not looking to deceive myself in order to gain comfort in this life. I want the truth or as much truth as I can possibly comprehend.

"my opinion goes so far as to say that our best bet for spiritually fulfilling lives is to be open and accepting of other peoples belief systems. this doesnt mean you have to believe what others do. but simply accept that diversity is one of the more beautiful things life has to offer."

As long as another's beliefs don't physically intrude on my safety or the safety (relatively speaking) of others then that's fine. But once that line is crossed we have a right to defend and preserve our way of life.

"hell santa clause is the remnant of a nordic war god associated with the ingestion of certain types of mushroom. how this ever became a childrens character goes to show just how religion is a concept that is in constant flux."

Well, it's a bit deeper than that. Think of the attributes Santa Claus (rearrange the letters and you get Satan) has been given; Omnipresent, omniscience, judges whether we've been good or bad and rewards or punishes us according to our deeds. Most of the parents in the western world lie to their children and tell them that Santa Claus is a real being setting those children up for a serious disappointment later on in life. This undermines and weakens the beliefs of those children and instills doubt and destroys faith at an early age. Personally I think that's the whole purpose of the Santa Claus persona, to destroy the possibility of following our Creator.

Things are going on in this world (of a spiritual nature) and most people are totally oblivious to it. They have no idea a spiritual war is going on all around them and that they are the key players in that war. We're subconsciously or consciously choosing sides, either for good or for evil. What people consider good YHWY does not. When you or I say, "Yeah, he's a good dude" or "She's really nice and has a good heart" that doesn't necessarily make it true. There is a huge difference, a different standard between what we perceive as being good and what God thinks is good.

The Catholic religion and the Vatican are not Christian. They appear Christian to those who lack knowledge but are far from it. The Pope is not the leader of Christianity (or rather the teaching of Yahushua Messiah [Jesus Christ]) but the high priest of the ancient mystery religions. This is is an irrefutable fact, it is not my opinion and it is not speculation. The Catholic church is a powerful force in this world for evil. This has nothing to do with everyday Catholic people. I'm speaking about the Catholic hierarchy.

It goes all the way back to Osiris, Isis and Horace. Pretty much every diety since then is just another form or incarnation of this trinity. Think about Prometheus (Lucifer) it's the same story. Prometheus brought fire (technology) to human beings and taught them the ways of war. Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve and fooled them into thinking God was holding out on them and viciously dominating them. All of the ancient myths are rooted in truth. It might be difficult to find that truth but it's there for those who are willing to dig deeply.

Some Indian tribe from the Pacific northwest had an oral tradition of a killer whale that lived in a lake on a mountain top. Archaeologists ridiculed those Indians and considered their traditions to be all myth, for the purpose of explaining nature or teaching value lessons. One archaeologist wasn't convinced it was myth and so he set out to find the mountain and the lake to see if the story was true. Sure as shyte he found the remains of an Orca killer whale on top of a mountain in a dry lake bed!

My point, don't discount myth as fantasy. Most myths and legends are rooted in fact and reality.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

i used old nick our friendly god of the underworld as an easy example just to say that most 'catholic' (or should i say western) practices are pagan anyway. all our traditions are. from feast days and saints to the bridal ring. you name it. pagan. heck, it was the only way of 'converting' people into accepting god. people convert for all sorts of reasons. the most popular one is pain of death, but people do it to get married as well... does that even matter? the fact that they do convert only shows that theres something missing where they were originally. alot dont convert, because its right for them, from inertia and many dont give a damn eitherway. what percentage of each faiths 'numbers' are made up of people who were 'converted' as children (no choice) and who really couldnt care less about religion... but they hold onto it out of superstition. and theres alot more of that than religion. or is it that religion is alot more about superstition than people like to let on. have you never knocked on wood?

so who's right? hehehe

religion makes for great discussion because of all these little twists to everything. like how western culture has turned catholicism from a middle eastern sect stemming from judaism into something else altogether full of the richness of our forefathers pagan superstition. and managed to expand to the evry corner of the globe by the use of practices which just happeny to go against everything catholicism is suposed to be about... im not against catholicism (though it may apear that way) fundamentally its as good as any other. love thy neighbour, etc etc. its just that for the most part catholics tend to forget the teachings of jesus when it most counts. i mean you'd think that following the teachings of a socialist hippie would make the world a better place. but catholics have been the most war hungry blood thirsty bunch probably sinse the cult of mars.

whatever happened to turn the other cheek?... thats one of the ones people tend to forget rather quickly.

like you say as long as it doesnt affect me personally i couldnt care less (though thats very unchristian of you based on the above teaching of christ)... and it really doesnt matter. but tell that to all the poor souls sent on their way for not adhering to christ over the last two millenia... hell of a way to love thy neighbour etc etc. , and its not just the catholics either. but catholics have a knack for religious atrocities and they dont even get along with each other.

any way. my belief is in free thought and personal spirituality.

i have no problem with peoples faiths in general, not yours or anyones. its just that when religion and power mix it becomes evil to put it mildly. or should i rephrase that to when belief becomes a religion?

and anyway this thing that we humans are made in gods image and were somehow put on earth to take care of it and rule over it... well... its sort of turned us into gods as well hasnt it? i mean we certainly act like it the way we treat nature dont you think? and i really am unable to see the good that has come from it all.

i wonder if dogs believe in a great wolf in the sky... i have no idea

i still dont see why one branch of monotheism is better than the other. maybe we should all go back to worshiping natures cycles ... oh yeh .. we never really stopped doing that did we?

like i said before. diversity is a good thing.

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as is openess and discussion. i know a number of people that would try to steamroll me with catholic propaganda after my opening statement.

too many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion on all sides and all because of why exactly? it really is a stupid waste.

i reckon accepting others as they are is the key to getting along. regardless of race or creed.

i mean who is to say the religious beliefs of the amazonian tribespeople isnt the only true (can this be the right word? are there wrong religions?) belief system.

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after all when you say right religion you are imediately placing yourself above those you consider wrong... belief is metaphysical and like taste quite subjective...

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oh... I'm sorry, did I stumble into the Political/Religious area by accident? I thought I was reading a thread about teaching others to grow. huh?








"Give a man a bud and he's high for a day, teach a man to grow and he's high for a lifetime!"

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... funny how you are right... i guess its the title that did it...
i didnt even realise half this thread is in the wrong section

hey corsican, maybe we should take our discussion elseware? what say you? i'm enjoying the discussion that much.

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Hehe!

Were just throwing some things around Pepe, nothing to get alarmed over.

I agree with a lot of what you said ileso, not all of it but a lot of it. I think there are some errors in your thinking, especially calling the Catholic church a Christian institution. That's just a front.

"The Catholic religion and the Vatican are not Christian. They appear Christian to those who lack knowledge but are far from it. The Pope is not the leader of Christianity (or rather the teaching of Yahushua Messiah [Jesus Christ]) but the high priest of the ancient mystery religions. This is is an irrefutable fact, it is not my opinion and it is not speculation. The Catholic church is a powerful force in this world for evil. This has nothing to do with everyday Catholic people. I'm speaking about the Catholic hierarchy."

Religion hasn't caused the world's problems, evil men have. They've used religion to twist and confuse the minds of men. Brainwashed people into zealous frenzies of murder and mayhem. I understand what you're saying about belief but everything is not subjective and ambiguous. Truth does enter into the equation and there are immutable truths and absolutes in this world.


"i still dont see why one branch of monotheism is better than the other. maybe we should all go back to worshiping natures cycles ... oh yeh .. we never really stopped doing that did we?"

Depends on what you believe doesn't it? I can say with certainty that I do not worship any natural cycle. Jesus Christ never taught anything so absurd either. Both Christmas and Easter are both pagan and have no place in the teachings of Yahushua whatsoever. Again, the Catholic church is nothing more than a fraud. The Pope is the high priest of the mystery religions.

"after all when you say right religion you are imediately placing yourself above those you consider wrong... belief is metaphysical and like taste quite subjective..."

No, I'm not placing myself above other people but I am saying there is a true spiritual path while other paths are deception. This might offend people and cause some bitterness but that's on them not me. I don't say it to offend or to cause strife. I'm just being honest. Can I prove that I'm right in my belief...that's a bit more complicated. The one thing to remember is my beliefs are not harmonious with mainstream Christian beliefs. Most Christians know nothing about the belief system they claim to follow.

I disagree that I'm deviating from the teachings of Yahushua just because I feel live and let live to be a good thing. Jesus taught compassion, forgiveness and felt that judging others in a final way was a bad thing. The Scriptures shouldn't be taken out of context or taken within a vacuum.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

good points, i'm moving half this post so that we can continue...

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now thats all very well said. i see we agree on alot of common ground. and i also see you are a practitioner of free thought who isnt spoon fed a whole lot of baloney and believes blindly. very uncommon for a 'christian' i'll give you that much.

like i said before i have nothing against other peoples spirituality. my only problem is religion nothing else. i dont understand for example how a belief system becomes a religion... ok its getting a bit confusing... (i know im stoned so bear with me here...) ... its my understanding that religion is a name Man gives to a belief system when it reaches a certain following... you see my problem is that in all the religions i look at i see the hand of Man not of god. Man approves or disapproves, we make the rules, we like to classify things and its the only difference for me between any given official religion and a sect for example... its goes from being a personal spiritual thing to a religion for the masses and therefore mainstream... anyway its all dodgy from where i stand.

now what people believe on the inside.. that which gives one some sort of spiritual comfort... thats something else... and it really doesnt matter what it is. whether its jesus or the spirit of nature. its all good. which takes me back to something i said earlier. that most forms of belief are based on a few simple and common premises. be a good person and dont harm other people. i have yet to find one that isnt. its pretty much common ground from the amazonian tribesmen to the modern pagan satan worshipers of northern europe.
of course twisted people are also common everywhere and its these that give a given group a bad rep.

now theres alot of people around who have yet to understand that the grey matter between their ears it there to be used. which leads to fundamentalism and a whole series of other problems... maybe humans are just wired for violence, which doesnt surprise me because alot of violence in needed to be on the top of the food chain...

anyway.. sorry if im all over the place with my thoughts. i'll come back when im a bit less brain dead.. hehehe

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Hey man,

Yeah, I agree completely, good stuff.

The main thing is to actually practice the tenets our beliefs hinge on; peace, love, patience, moderation (except when it comes to the sacred herb!), etc., etc.. What good is it to call yourself a Christian or Muslim or whatever if you don't actually follow the teachings? I'm down with you on your definition of religion and accept it as true. It's pretty straight forward and simple, the way most things that are true are (KISS).

No worries brother, sometimes I express myself very eloquently and other times I sound like an ignorant idiot.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

I don't think we are in a position to know much about what's really going on. We can understand it as well as ants can understand quadratic equations.

There's not much else to say about it, really.

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-Michael

Hey Michael,

We could debate your opinion but I understand that side of the argument/discussion. Some people believe that the Creator has revealed Himself to humanity, other don't and some believe the universe is an accident. There's no reason to argue either for or against (in a negative manner anyway) because people change on their own dime. You can try to convince another person and indoctrinate them with other beliefs until you turn blue in the face but if they aren't ready it is useless.

There shouldn't be any need to defend our beliefs for the most part. Usually when a person zealously defends their beliefs it is because they don't (not always but generally) quite believe it themselves. Other times they are sincerely trying to teach another person about something that has changed their own life.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

The only reason we think we understand a damned thing about any of this is sheer arrogance in the face of direct evidence to the contrary.

Just my $.02

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-Michael

lets say most of what we say are educated guesses.

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Educated guesses?

How can we be educated about things which can neither be proven or disproven?

Granted, I have my own beliefs. But, they are what they are... entirely inadequate.

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-Michael

I hear you Michael but everything is not so ambiguous. The subjective is just as important as the objective. Science is about the empirical but every great scientific advance has come from the subjective and the metaphysical. It seems absurd to doubt or totally disregard something just because we don't have all the answers. I think this is what makes life so awesome. The not knowing is what makes life so interesting and so unpredictable. If we knew it all life would be shyte.

Granted, I have my own beliefs. But, they are what they are... entirely inadequate.

I agree. I have faith in my God but I'd be a liar if I denied what you wrote. I'm in doubt about life just like you are. I have my moments of weakness and hopelessness but then I remember some of those subjective and metaphysical experiences I have had and realize there is so much in life that cannot be measured or empirically proven yet it is more real to me than what can be seen or felt. There is a mysterious beauty all around us. Some times we are in tune to it and most of the time we are not but it cannot be denied by the honest truth seeker.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"