The 4th branch

natmoon

Heres a very good music video that many of you may have already seen in the past.
This video is gruesome and distasteful so do not watch it if you are easily upset by things like this.

I am not American so i don't know how much of this is the truth and i also except my fair share of the responsibility for being involved as an English person in this whole bag of shit.

Anyway watch with caution,the music is excellent as are the lyrics.
I would appreciate knowing how many of you American guys think that this is really going on or if it is an extremist point of view

Immortal2-PC.html

Pappy

Very powerful! It is and has been going on for a long time. It's just that more and more of us are beginning to realize these truths. The time is short. I believe that if we are to turn things around, it will be a blood-bath. Those in power, are not going to let go, without a fight. They already have an army that is not answerable to anyone. Blackwater, is the only one we know about.

__________________
You can't believe anything I say, and only half of what you see me do.

4kaan4

Try holocaust. I have no doubt that the powerful would not allow anyone to live if they cannot. In my opinion it would be a blessing to the Earth if our numbers were reduced by 50%-75%. We've been there before in prehistoric times, down to a few thousand or so on the entire planet. We survived then and I have no doubt we would survive again. I know it sounds heartless, yet when you consider nature's way of disease and famine, I think I would much rather go quickly than to linger in illness & hunger. Who knows? We might end up unleashing a plauge the likes of which nature never could have dreamed of creating. Have you ever read "The Stand" by Stephen King?

4kaan4

__________________
I am an incorrigible, pathological fantasizer fabricating illusionary amusements for various individuals. In other words I lie like a politician. I refuse to break the law because I intend to live my life till the day I die!

knottyd

Lets just say the media only shows what it wants to show. Yes people die over there BUT there is LOTS of good that gets done, as I have been on both sides of the fence. I have seen hours and 1000's of videos like that plus way worse. Without getting into a long heated discusion...Sometimes the images you see had to happen. Not all killing is senseless killing( This coming from a guy pro military).

People talk smack about what goes on in Iraq and Afganistan but I'm sure you'll put your life and the lives of the ones you love and care about over some stranger in a 3rd world country who is ungrateful that you are trying to help them. Wether or not we as a country like that fact that we're there the point is we are. My only problem now is I dont like losing my friends because we're helping a country that doesnt want to be helped.


Pappy:

I dont know about years ago, but today it sucks to be in the army in Iraq...ROE (rules of engagement) have changed and continue to change. As i was leaving Iraq last year they started issuing non-lethal round and shit. Excuse me but I've never been shot at will a rubber round so why should I shoot back with non-lethal ammunition. The escalation of force in Iraq is horrible for soldiers these days you have to work your way up to live rounds...HAHA NOT me..you throw a rock i throw a rock..you shoot a bullet i shoot a bullet..

Maybe when someones car or truck gets blown up while there driving down the road they'll think that what goes on over seas is necessary. As for Blackwater..so what they messed up...$hit happens...your stress level is so high yes $hit does happen. I think they have it harder than US soldiers do. They are not there in the masses like we are, yeah there living conditions and pay are better but its different..one of those things if you haven't experienced it you just dont know. Its not easy walking down the street 8000 miles from home in a country where its possible that EVERYONE around you wants to kill you or will for the right price.


If you ask me we're too easy on the Iraqi people.

Anyway this is a touchy subject..especially if you have been there

__________________
I may say or do things to get you to like me, that includes lie, cheat and steal. So i'm going to appoligize now if somethings I say or do turns out to be a lie. I may lie, cheat, and steal..BUT I WOULD NEVER BREAK THE LAW!!!!

4kaan4

The soldier in the trenches always gets the short end of the stick. However, seeing what goes on here with our "leaders" leaves me rather cynical about their desire to do good by the human race. You are also correct when you say I would put the lives of my loved ones first...even before our "leaders".

These clowns cannot even figure out that their "stratagies" and "techniques" are NOT working simply because those people over in the Middle East DO NOT want us poking our sanctimonious noses into their business.

On a slightly brighter side, we need to watch the Iraqis and learn form their techniques of resisting (yes, it can be done) a larger, more powerful military force. We may yet need that knowledge here...


4kaan4

__________________
I am an incorrigible, pathological fantasizer fabricating illusionary amusements for various individuals. In other words I lie like a politician. I refuse to break the law because I intend to live my life till the day I die!

Pappy

I agree with your points, as far as being in the military. I spent 4 years in U.S.M.C.
However, if we were not involved in Iraq, none of our people would be dying in Iraq, by a roadside bomb, or otherwise. In addition, Blackwater and para-military forces such as them, are not answerable to anyone. When I was in the service, if I, or my unit, screwed up, we paid dearly. Just as the regular U.S. military does now.
I think it is great for our service members to be proud of their service. But, just like VietNam, service in Iraq is merely lining the pockets of mostly, but not all, faceless and nameless power hungry elitists.
The military is told it is fighting for American freedom. Bull!!!

Question: If the U.S. forces were ordered into martial-law, here in the States, would they follow orders and shoot resisters?

Please pardon my rant.:losthead:

__________________
You can't believe anything I say, and only half of what you see me do.

Pappy

And this is an all volunteer military. It simply baffles me.

__________________
You can't believe anything I say, and only half of what you see me do.

natmoon

Many different points of view then basically.
I guess my real question is where do we draw the line between atrocity and the need to fight for freedom.

I also wanted to know whether the American people and their soldiers would actually support the war if it was known to have been started on purpose just to seize the oil.

I have been led to believe that saddam wouldn't sell the usa oil at the required prices under the agreements made with the usa after the usa sold him weapons so that he could take control of the middle east in a kind of deal that would secure cheap oil for the usa and that when he went renagade on them they killed him even though previously he was drinking tea with Donald rumsfeld before purchasing some weapons of mass destruction from him and that 9/11 gave them the excuse to seize power in the middle east for oil reasons.

To my mind it all seems like a big load of rubbish that is basically one arms dealer has been ripped of by an oil baron and the arms dealer has gone back to collect like a drug dealer that hasn't been paid as agreed.

Anyway i may have it all wrong and i appreciate the strong feeling of all soldiers that are involved.
I just wanted to know if the American government was as corrupt as they have been portrayed to be in this film and if they really did sell chemicals weapons to saddam in an oil trade deal.

Peace and good wishes to all that have died from all races creed and colour in this war and respect to all of their families.
Please don't think i am judging you or that i am a hater i would just like to know the American peoples opinions as i no longer feel that i can trust the news broadcasts or extremist points of view after i learnt of the broadcasters gagging orders from the government and i would like to know as much of the real truth about this subject as i can.

I am also interested to know if it is really true that your news channels have been infiltrated by top brass military to make sure that its run as the government see fit and that they only report what they are told to.

I also wonder if my country is in exactly the same situation,basically i have lost all my faith in the establishment

knottyd

Volunteer...I wonder who gave it that label???? Yes you sign up on your own free will but the is nothing volunteer about it....I love the military its a big part of my life but they need to rephrase that.

Its a job/lifestyle that once entered into if you dont like it TOUGH. I understand you signed a contract but not eveything is for everyone. There are people trying to get out of the military but can't. I dont know about you but I want to fight with someone who wants to fight and is gonna give it there 110%, not just someone who is there because he has to be.

"united we stand, divided we fall"

__________________
I may say or do things to get you to like me, that includes lie, cheat and steal. So i'm going to appoligize now if somethings I say or do turns out to be a lie. I may lie, cheat, and steal..BUT I WOULD NEVER BREAK THE LAW!!!!

willtrib

Great video
I'm working on a project right now concerning Mk-Ultra