OK...here's a strange one for you to start off the new year...

I walk into my grow rooms this morning at about 8:30, and the damn veg light is out.

BUT

The exhaust fan run off the same timer is humming away, and the BALLST for the 1000W MH/HPS is also still ON. The lamp is OUT...

On this circuit there are only the 3 lights (2 HPS in flower room and 1 MH/HPS in veg room). The Flower lights were on and doing fine, and since it was 74 F. in there I knew they had not been out. The Veg room was only 61 F., and the lamp was off.

So, no electrical problems with the timer, Vortex fan and the ballast was still running for the lamp that was out. Seems to me if the ballast is pumping out the voltage that lamps has to do ...something????

I checked all the conections, found that the 1000W ballast was still running (it was warm just as when it operates) and then I re-fired then lamp. It started-up up just fine, and stayed on for the remaining 30 min. before the lights were set to go out on the timer, and it shut off just as it should have.

So, ballast or lamp is not bad, yet, that lamp shut off sometime between 2:00 AM and 8:00 AM, but the ballast and everything else seemed to be working fine, and the lamp re-fired and lit up fine.

This is one of the new lamps from Hortilux that has the 600W HPS and 400W MH Blue in the same bulb.

WTF happened?

If it had been a power shortage issue the HPS lights should have been the first to go, as they are further (12') from the source (circuit breaker) and should have had lower voltage than the one that was only a 12" run of 10/2 Romex from the breaker box.

Makes no freakin sense at all.

I do have a 1000 HPS lamp I can replace the HPS/MH lamp with, but hate to use it if nothing is really wrong...but I can't be having lights go out when they just feel like it!

Anyone seen anything like this before?

ISO

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Your troubleshooting skills are great! I would first re-seat the bulb and check that the connection between the bulb and socket are matched well, then call the manufacture and see if they have had complaints of this nature. Also check to see if there is black discoloration on either the bulb or socket, that would indicate a connection/resistance problem
GSR

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Good thinking GSR...I appreciate your ideas.

Gotta admit, this one has me flamboozled. I took your advice and since the lamp was out (plants sleeping) I pulled the lamp and checked both it and the socket for any potential defects. Looks like the day it was new...not a mark anywhere that shouldn't be there. I also took the opportunity nto clean the glass in all 3 of my air-cooled housings, anc check out the cords, etc. in the other lamps. (A little PM never hurt)

I also checked the timer, the lamp cord and all the connections between the lamp and ballast, and they all appeared to be making solid contact.

HellifIknow what's wrong with it...just that the lamp shut off for some reason (and there IS a reason...) I took out that 1000W HPS lamp and set it in the veg room just in case the damn thing goes out again. If that lamp goes out too, then it's a ballast problem.

ISO

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ISO, I gotta admit this is a puzzling problem, but the good thing about this forum, is smart peeps like GSR to the resuce, his advice makes mucho sense.

(back to the vaporizer now)
Peace

I've also noticed that the bulbs need to be tighter than you might think. They need maximum contact. I'll see you gents around in 08.
Back to the vap myself.
GSR

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Just in case you are wondering what The Emerald Triangle is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Triangle


Check out my latest project
http://www.greenpassion.org/f16/south-emerald-triangle-7780/

Well, here's what I came up with...seems logical to me, but still, I don't know for sure as I have no way of testing these parts outside of live tests...

A lamp is basically a "dumb beast". What I mean by that is that my lamp contains 2 gas tubes, one HPS and the other MH. The gas in the tubes is excited by the electrical current flowing by/through it, and the excitement of the gas creates the light. So long as there is a current across the active filament in the lamp, it must give off some light relative to the voltage crossing the filament. Even if it were not enough voltage to fully fire the lamp, one would still see the filament burning as it passed the gas tubes.

To sum all that up, even though the ballast was ON, there was no current reaching the lamp filament. Since the lamp re-fired, the lamp is good..therefore, there was no current leaving the ballast.

Inside a ballast (if you haven't looked) is a starter mechanism (digital or otherwise), a large capacitor and a magnetic coil or two..so there are not too many potential culprits.

The lamp refired as it should have at 2:00 PM and seems to be running fine, so far. I see no problems or hear any unusual noises from the ballast. Really don't like not knowing WHY this happened..as having lights go out like this (unannounced) is a bad thing for any plant. Fortunately these kids have had a pretty mellow life to this point, and are still less than 30 days veg time.

Thanks for all the help guys. If this ballast is bad I can get it replaced tomorrow AM, but it won't be with another of the same brand!

ISO

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Could it be the igniter?? It could be going..

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PEACE.
Never stop growing.
Seeds are the future.

Iso,
Any problems over night?
GSR

Nope...everything ran like a champ...no problems and the light was active 19 hrs. (just shut off).

I spent mucho time out there last night (broke my heart having to do that..LOL) and never saw so much as a "bump" in the lights performance all evening till 1AM and I was back up at 6:30...still running fine and 76 F. in the Veg room and 78 F. in the flower room.

Perfect!

Now, if it will just keep doing that...somedays its and somedays its

ISO

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ISO,
From what I've read and seen you are doing great. Keep it up, and I'll see you around.
GSR

__________________
Just in case you are wondering what The Emerald Triangle is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Triangle


Check out my latest project
http://www.greenpassion.org/f16/south-emerald-triangle-7780/

Keep a close eye on it. Hopefully it was just a loose connection.

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What I freely have been given let me freely share

Hey ISO, I think GSR is right on it.You repluged the ballest timer and all.You most likely fixed it.What dose the fan pull on amps and what dose the light pull and what is the load amps on the timer.But I have a theory,The blubs are new on the market,we dont know about them the ballest are new.The ballest fire the blub and it flecter and didnt light and the ballest stayed on.Doing this the other half of the blub had voltage so the ballest stay on and the half of the blubhas to fire to make the other half fire,no light.You unpluged the ballest and restarted it,that reset everything.Just my theroy. PEACE

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Do the lights from the opposite room turn on during the hours of this malfunction? If so, it could be caused by power surge in the circut. Not enough to blow it, but enough to cause the light to trip(shut off) Your ballast and fans will continue to run but the light won,t refire immidiately. It has to cool down first then will refire on it's own. Had a fridge on the same circut as my lights one time. Everytime that fridge would kick on, my lights would go off. Took me a while and many bongs to figure out what the hell was causing it.

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KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!!!! KEEP UP THE GROW!!!!!!



Warning: Be advised,the author of these messages is suffering from Delusions of Grandeur and nothing in the posts or threads should be mistaken for truth. I have'nt nor ever will do anything against the laws of my state. Therefore these posts can't be used against me in a court of law. There all lies, lies, lies, I tell you!!!!

Hi Toke,

The timer handles 15 amps, and the light draws 9.6 and the fan about 1 amp.

I would have to look at the electrical diagrams of the ballast to be sure, but my "theory" is that the ballast has a "shunt", so that if there is a problem at the lamp (bulb) end, it can drain off the excess current to ground. Ballast will run, but no power output.

Seems to be working fine the last couple days, so I'll just keep an eye on it and hope it continues to do it's job. If not, there are always other ballasts!

All the best,

ISO

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LOL!! Many bongs?

The lights (when that one went out) were all on. I have them starting at graduated times. Veg fires at 1400 and goes till 0900 the next morning. Flower fires at 2100 and 2103, so that the circuit does not handle excess start up voltages at the same time.

Without a delayed timer, that light will re-fire immediately...and that is a bad thing. I am adding (soon as I can afford it) a multi-outlet controller that has a 15 min. cool-down period built into it so if there is a power outage it can re-start safely without harming the lamp.

ISO

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Glad too here that there working fine now.

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KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!!!! KEEP UP THE GROW!!!!!!



Warning: Be advised,the author of these messages is suffering from Delusions of Grandeur and nothing in the posts or threads should be mistaken for truth. I have'nt nor ever will do anything against the laws of my state. Therefore these posts can't be used against me in a court of law. There all lies, lies, lies, I tell you!!!!

OK...the SOB did it again, early this morning, right in front of me.....

There was a slight power bump and the lamp shut off...all in about a nano-second.

My guess is that the power bump caused the ballast to protect itself and shut down.

There is -0- I can do to help this issue, as the lights are on a stand alone circuit already, and therefore are about as insulated from the rest of the power as possible.

I think I'll change to a non-digital ballast this time...should be much more forgiving.

More later...too freaking early right now.

ISO

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Keep us posted Bro. i'm really interested to see if the non digital does the same thing.

__________________
KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!!!! KEEP UP THE GROW!!!!!!



Warning: Be advised,the author of these messages is suffering from Delusions of Grandeur and nothing in the posts or threads should be mistaken for truth. I have'nt nor ever will do anything against the laws of my state. Therefore these posts can't be used against me in a court of law. There all lies, lies, lies, I tell you!!!!

Found the problem I think. I took the ballast back to the retailer, and they tested it there. At my place it ran hotter than hell (digital, too) and there it was damn near cool...barely warm. Told me I had an issue with heat (thermal overload protection), or electrical, or both.

Checked the circuit box and found I had a bad connection for the ground on that circuit, then put it all back together. She fired up just fine, and stayed cool for about the first three hrs. before it started to warm up much...so I put a small fan on it and now it feels actually cold!

So, the bad ground was causing the ballast to draw more power and not operate effeciently, making it run hotter to still keep the lamp fired...it would get too hot and shut down rather than burn up.

Hopefully it all will work together and work properly, now..LOL!!

ISO

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Hey ISO,glad you got it fixed.Could I ask you,is the breaker pannel balance.Ok sparky can explain better than me, but here go's the breaker pannel is feeded by a 220 volt line to the main breaker.the breaker supply power to both side of the pannel.Whitch is 110 volts each side.The electrician divids the amps up into two equal halfs.You have a stove, hot water heater, furnace,dryer,ac,and the 20amp circuits and 15 amps circuits for lights and outlets.What they do is total the amps and divide them and put half of the breakers on one side of the box and half on the other side to balance it.Example 200amp breaker pannel,one side is 100 amps and the other side is 100amps,the stove and and the furnace with 20 & 15 amp circuits and on the other side the hot water heater,ac,dryer,and 20 & 15 amp circuits.Persay the dryer,ac,hot water all added up to 100 amps and the other side to 80 amps,you balance it out something like that.Not all the circuits will be on at the same time and the load to each side of the pannel will be about the same draw of electric.In your pannel ISO look and see what's on all the time and what's not,then check and see if your lights are on the side of the pannel that has a big draw all the time.That could be where you get the light flicker when something on that side of the breaker pannel comes on drawing current to start.I hope I didnt confuse you,it's hard for me to explain but I think I got it done.
I dont think you will have any more problems it is the ballest that's given you the problems.Hope you dont have any more problems with your grow room,it can be unnerving at times.hope this helps you out. pEACE

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