Hybrid's Medicine Cabinet - Organic 12/12 CFL Micro - Stealth PC + Extreme LST - GreenPassion.org - Dedicated to Medicinal Cannabis Cultivation and Education

unrefined.hybrid · #1 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 12:47 PM

Hey all. Thanks for coming along for a look at my bonsai garden of unearthly delights.

I have never really trialled micro techniques in any serious way before, but thought I'd have a go. I have previously used the same training idea on very small "patio" sized plants to tuck into a conventional herb garden, which worked well. The media, food and genes are all tried and tested.

This is the third run using this system, was fairly pleased with the first two run using sativa-leaning local genetics, nearly two zips. Improved airflow and lower temps on the second run helped budset and resin production considerably.

Not as much character as from the same beans grown under the big bulb in the sky, but then producing in a foot or two of space rain hail or shine is a big advantage for some. For a low-level medical and occasional rec user, that easily provides fresh healthy herbage for the most part of the year, from only 3 or 4 months of very light effort. I used to think of PC's as being strictly for share houses and the parentally challenged :P but mine has grown on me quite a bit.

And it's fun to play with too. Easily more entertaining than TV to stare at for a while. The cat likes to sleep on top in winter, nothing like a bit of biodiversity!

I started with a PC case. My spare room is like a secret electronics graveyard so it doesn't look out of place at all, the hum is neatly covered by other computer gear and it's out of the way.

I added what is rated locally as a 48w CFL (cool white) but I suspect it runs a bit higher than what is sold as the same overseas - the results and the output both seem a little higher than I would have expected. For a square foot or so of coverage, it is so far ideal. I could jam more wattage in smaller multiple bulbs in the same space, but temps are just comfortable as it is, extra fan power would mean more noise than I can cover comfortably.

The same size and brand of CFL but in a warm white is fitted after around 6 weeks of growth, around the time of serious preflowering (for this variety anyway, we only differ from 12/12 day cycles by about half an hour either way for most of the year so the local plants are pretty used to it).

Fitting the warm white usually results in a week or two of mild stretch. This is simply tied/tucked/tip pinched back down into the "hedge".

Ventilation is via a standard pc fan, baffled for sound and lightproofed with a trap made from old plastic plant pots and silicon, and a passive intake at the front. I have a y splitter on my power cord, to have only one cord coming out of the case. Reflective material is typical cheap mylar covered car sun visor. Not ideal, but I like to recycle where possible (and sometimes even where not :P ) and it does the trick.

Box was lightproofed with Al foil, silicon, black "nursery grade" plastic sheeting and adhesive backed foam stripping sold for reducing noise of cupboard doors in kitchens, etc. Thermometer is simple magnetic aquarium type, dirt cheap (and unwanted since our turtle passed away, aw). Regularly tested against a more reliable them, it's surprisingly accurate.

Temps 26-31 deg c, depends on time of year and size of plants, but the strains I use in there are very heat tolerant (being used to 40 deg C summers) and perform well. Nice compact leaves, good light penetration all round.

No real health niggles, every time they come out of the box for food,water or training I check all over for dead leaves, or anything suspect. Dead leaves must be removed from canopy and "branches" otherwise they tend to get devoured by the organic mix, which then spores leaf rot type orgs. into the plants. Bad! So anything dead, just about dead, or on the mix surface is removed promptly.

Brief outbreak of mustiness in first run using this system was treated with a combination foliar tea of garlic and chamomile, immediate fix to airflow, light thinning of canopy and reduced watering... easily under control, never seen again (famous last words, he said).

In winter, fans are on only with lights, in summer fans are on when lights are on, and then for 20 mins every hour in lights off. This helps temps, and helps prevent excess condensation and dew inside the box.

Media is a blend of decayed granite sand (coarse), coco fines, and natural native forest compost, plus dolomitic lime, light dusting of aged guano and neutralised ash. Proprietary wetting granules are added as per directions on potting into final size pots (pictures to come). Ocean based nutrients are used for enhanced vegetative growth, tapering off around budset and becoming more reliant on guano and ash, and natural potash and phosphate.

Water is rain or aired-out tap water, applied to say 20 percent run off as needed. I use a very airy mix with a low bulk density so I can afford to keep them a touch damp most of the time for consistent growth without risking rot or stagnation. Feeding is every other watering, but of course varies with stages of growth, etc. Lower 20mm of final size pots is pure very coarse sand, this is for drainage purposes and is held in with lightweight insect mesh.

Roots can escape this,but will usually die at tips and then rebranch easily into the sand layer. If I have to bareroot a plant, check the roots or repot, the mesh makes it easier to move the whole rootmass without damage and to tease out any bound roots on repotting.

Whole system can be left running for 5 or 6 days at a time. I run light-at-night for security and temperature issues.

String used for training is polyester blend knit wool. This dries easily, is soft and very light, and the different colours lets me see what stage of training which strings are a part of if I want to shift them around later as well as preventing accidentally snipping a string during pruning with needle nosed secateurs.

Training begins once the plant has 4 nodes or so and begins secondary growth. It is topped hygienically to 2 healthy nodes, tied to the side of the pot after a very good watering (gradual process, but I don't actually bend my mainstem like most LST, I actually rotate the rootball and crown). The branches from the remaining nodes are trained back across the width of the pot away from the direction of tilt, tipped again when they reach the other side, and all side shoots are allowed to grow vertically until 2-3 nodes. They are then tipped, and tied or tucked back into the canopy.

Not all phenos play along, some are much harder to rein in than others and others tend to stunt in response to the level of training. But, no hermies thus far... good genes go a long way. I am not in a position to get hold of "designer" genetics but I am very happy with what I have.

This amount of training and fiddling is only possibly due to the variety of plant I select and it's response (or lack of!) to being on 12/12 from seed. More short flowering varieties would probably explode on you mid train, so probably something best attempted with a sativa leaning strain.

Seeds are germinated in a "half strength" version of their mature growth mix. Planted 8mm or so, watered in and left to sit either on a sunny windowsill or under lights/on a heating pad until they pop. Usually 4 days for something to rear it's lil green head. I resist the urge to help a seed out by pulling of it's coat, it may be helpful with old seed but I find it just causes damage to seed leaves and delayed growth in the long run.

Additional nutes etc are started off on the weak side after the 3rd or 4th set of true leaves. I tend to keep my plants on the lean and mean side, excess lush growth around here tends to invite insect attacks and in that small a space, would just impede airflow and have to be removed later on anyway. Most of my varieties are also often very sensitive to fertility, at the first sign of some extra food they will explode into growth, but if kept a little lean form compact, hardy bushes.

Now let's see if I can get some pictures working... wish me luck folks!

unrefined.hybrid · #2 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 12:48 PM

unrefined.hybrid · #3 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 12:52 PM

Apologies for occasional blurry pic, these random photos you find on the internet are often of low quality and taken by rank amateurs :P

Looking forward to flowering on those... uhh... random photos.

justanotherbozo · #4 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 12:59 PM

...lol, don't apologize man! that's some cool chit! love all the LST, lol.

unrefined.hybrid · #5 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 01:09 PM

Thanks Bozo .... trust me, they're poo photos next to most of my better work, ha ha.

Hardly a towering forest but a nice little de-stresser in between outdoor cycles that's for sure, and a good option for gifted planted, strains worth keeping and for isolated pollination as well. Great seed starters for an early start on the outdoor too.

It's my equivalent of a Zen Office Garden I guess.

unrefined.hybrid · #6 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 01:14 PM

I only wish they took MORE fiddling, other than the initial stringing-up (or is that down) and a couple of follow up tie downs a couple of weeks apart on a couple of occasions, it's just tipping and tucking.

I guess that makes it a temporary LST SCROG with no screen. Now if I can just line up the smoke without the wait, I'll be sitting pretty!

justanotherbozo · #7 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrefined.hybrid

I only wish they took MORE fiddling, other than the initial stringing-up (or is that down) and a couple of follow up tie downs a couple of weeks apart on a couple of occasions, it's just tipping and tucking.

I guess that makes it a temporary LST SCROG with no screen. Now if I can just line up the smoke without the wait, I'll be sitting pretty!

lol, yeah buddy, we all need something to keep our hands busy, lol.

myself, i only LST my moms and i've never grown out a SCROG, been
running SOG from the beginning, which was about 2 1\2 years ago.

anyway, here's a couple pics of a couple of my LST'ed mothers, lol.
not nearly as convoluted as your's, lol.

chuckd420 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 04:26 PM

Those are some real nice lookin' plants. I've been real interested in micro grows for a while, the ability to grow in such a small space is great if you live in an apartment like I do, and worry about the landlord stopping by. I am lookin' to build a cab myself, but wanted a second smaller one for clones and mothers, and this style of growing would make that possible. I'm lookin forward to seein' those girls flowered out and a dry weight figure.

unrefined.hybrid · #9 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 08:46 PM

Nice mums Bozo, very .... motherly, lol. Local laws here are kind of harsh on higher plant counts, sad thing. Ah well. Doesn't rule it out, just means it takes a lil more thought, hey.Hard to tell scale but mine are probably as tall if you tease em out after de-stringing... one of them can be "untucked" and is around 40cm wide in two long crazy rams horns, would take up the whole floorspace of a PC if I let it go.

I started this lil system with mums in mind but curiosity killed the cat as they say. Convoluted, I like that, I like to think of em as frozen cyclones, lol. Weight, time will tell, but I consider it a reasonable success to get at least an honest ounce without having to talk to scumbags, get rubbish, or drag water around the bush.

Chuck, I do have another almost identical case set up, this allows me to either run 2-4 small plants from scratch,or start one box a month or two behind the other, or (current approach) once I start to see hairs on the mature ones, I start a few more seeds in the other one. After 4-5 weeks, they can get swapped over for a headstart. It's not exactly perpetual harvest but it's better than a poke in the eye, at least. Could always grow one larger plant per box, too.

When not in use I use em for germing cactus and other medicinal seedlings too. Handy things.

I will probably be using the second box for a couple of well selected mothers once the current run is out of the way, but for the moment am flush enough with beans for it to not be a real big deal... some great things to be discovered already!

I like the profile of a PC, much easier to tuck into your living area without that "Big Square Grow Box" that of COURSE isn't a grow cab, just happens to be made of ply, is 3 times taller than it is wide and HUMS :D Works for me anyway. Also means I can tuck a box in behind a shelf, under a desk, or put both of em back to back against a wall out of sight.

In retrospect, if I ever clean out another box or when I fine tune the current ones, I will run a couple of lil LED's off the fan power, and mount them in the faceplate of the computer... just a touch odd to hear the hum but not see the lights ...thankfully, by keeping my router box on top of the main one, the brain gets its fix of blinking lights before it starts wondering too much about the specifics!

thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

take care out there.

unrefined.hybrid · #10 (**permalink**) 07-31-2009, 08:49 PM

Ah, forgot to mention that plants are rotated every couple days, as the light is a bit uneven from one end to the other... "darkest" end goes to the brightest, brightest goes to the middle, middle goes to the dark end... nothing too scary in the stretch dept. so far so it must be working. Wouldn't be doable with a screen tangling things up though, I'd have to look into making a reflector that is curved along the axis of the bulb rather than across it like most.

ghostwolf · #11 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrefined.hybrid

Hey all. Thanks for coming along for a look at my bonsai garden of unearthly delights.

I have never really trialled micro techniques in any serious way before, but thought I'd have a go. I have previously used the same training idea on very small "patio" sized plants to tuck into a conventional herb garden, which worked well. The media, food and genes are all tried and tested.

This is the third run using this system, was fairly pleased with the first two run using sativa-leaning local genetics, nearly two zips. Improved airflow and lower temps on the second run helped budset and resin production considerably.

Not as much character as from the same beans grown under the big bulb in the sky, but then producing in a foot or two of space rain hail or shine is a big advantage for some. For a low-level medical and occasional rec user, that easily provides fresh healthy herbage for the most part of the year, from only 3 or 4 months of very light effort. I used to think of PC's as being strictly for share houses and the parentally challenged :P but mine has grown on me quite a bit.

And it's fun to play with too. Easily more entertaining than TV to stare at for a while. The cat likes to sleep on top in winter, nothing like a bit of biodiversity!

I started with a PC case. My spare room is like a secret electronics graveyard so it doesn't look out of place at all, the hum is neatly covered by other computer gear and it's out of the way.

I added what is rated locally as a 48w CFL (cool white) but I suspect it runs a bit higher than what is sold as the same overseas - the results and the output both seem a little higher than I would have expected. For a square foot or so of coverage, it is so far ideal. I could jam more wattage in smaller multiple bulbs in the same space, but temps are just comfortable as it is, extra fan power would mean more noise than I can cover comfortably.

The same size and brand of CFL but in a warm white is fitted after around 6 weeks of growth, around the time of serious preflowering (for this variety anyway, we only differ from 12/12 day cycles by about half an hour either way for most of the year so the local plants are pretty used to it).

Fitting the warm white usually results in a week or two of mild stretch. This is simply tied/tucked/tip pinched back down into the "hedge".

Ventilation is via a standard pc fan, baffled for sound and lightproofed with a trap made from old plastic plant pots and silicon, and a passive intake at the front. I have a y splitter on my power cord, to have only one cord coming out of the case. Reflective material is typical cheap mylar covered car sun visor. Not ideal, but I like to recycle where possible (and sometimes even where not :P ) and it does the trick.

Box was lightproofed with Al foil, silicon, black "nursery grade" plastic sheeting and adhesive backed foam stripping sold for reducing noise of cupboard doors in kitchens, etc. Thermometer is simple magnetic aquarium type, dirt cheap (and unwanted since our turtle passed away, aw). Regularly tested against a more reliable them, it's surprisingly accurate.

Temps 26-31 deg c, depends on time of year and size of plants, but the strains I use in there are very heat tolerant (being used to 40 deg C summers) and perform well. Nice compact leaves, good light penetration all round.

No real health niggles, every time they come out of the box for food,water or training I check all over for dead leaves, or anything suspect. Dead leaves must be removed from canopy and "branches" otherwise they tend to get devoured by the organic mix, which then spores leaf rot type orgs. into the plants. Bad! So anything dead, just about dead, or on the mix surface is removed promptly.

Brief outbreak of mustiness in first run using this system was treated with a combination foliar tea of garlic and chamomile, immediate fix to airflow, light thinning of canopy and reduced watering... easily under control, never seen again (famous last words, he said).

In winter, fans are on only with lights, in summer fans are on when lights are on, and then for 20 mins every hour in lights off. This helps temps, and helps prevent excess condensation and dew inside the box.

Media is a blend of decayed granite sand (coarse), coco fines, and natural native forest compost, plus dolomitic lime, light dusting of aged guano and neutralised ash. Proprietary wetting granules are added as per directions on potting into final size pots (pictures to come). Ocean based nutrients are used for enhanced vegetative growth, tapering off around budset and becoming more reliant on guano and ash, and natural potash and phosphate.

Water is rain or aired-out tap water, applied to say 20 percent run off as needed. I use a very airy mix with a low bulk density so I can afford to keep them a touch damp most of the time for consistent growth without risking rot or stagnation. Feeding is every other watering, but of course varies with stages of growth, etc. Lower 20mm of final size pots is pure very coarse sand, this is for drainage purposes and is held in with lightweight insect mesh.

Roots can escape this,but will usually die at tips and then rebranch easily into the sand layer. If I have to bareroot a plant, check the roots or repot, the mesh makes it easier to move the whole rootmass without damage and to tease out any bound roots on repotting.

Whole system can be left running for 5 or 6 days at a time. I run light-at-night for security and temperature issues.

String used for training is polyester blend knit wool. This dries easily, is soft and very light, and the different colours lets me see what stage of training which strings are a part of if I want to shift them around later as well as preventing accidentally snipping a string during pruning with needle nosed secateurs.

Training begins once the plant has 4 nodes or so and begins secondary growth. It is topped hygienically to 2 healthy nodes, tied to the side of the pot after a very good watering (gradual process, but I don't actually bend my mainstem like most LST, I actually rotate the rootball and crown). The branches from the remaining nodes are trained back across the width of the pot away from the direction of tilt, tipped again when they reach the other side, and all side shoots are allowed to grow vertically until 2-3 nodes. They are then tipped, and tied or tucked back into the canopy.

Not all phenos play along, some are much harder to rein in than others and others tend to stunt in response to the level of training. But, no hermies thus far... good genes go a long way. I am not in a position to get hold of "designer" genetics but I am very happy with what I have.

This amount of training and fiddling is only possibly due to the variety of plant I select and it's response (or lack of!) to being on 12/12 from seed. More short flowering varieties would probably explode on you mid train, so probably something best attempted with a sativa leaning strain.

Seeds are germinated in a "half strength" version of their mature growth mix. Planted 8mm or so, watered in and left to sit either on a sunny windowsill or under lights/on a heating pad until they pop. Usually 4 days for something to rear it's lil green head. I resist the urge to help a seed out by pulling of it's coat, it may be helpful with old seed but I find it just causes damage to seed leaves and delayed growth in the long run.

Additional nutes etc are started off on the weak side after the 3rd or 4th set of true leaves. I tend to keep my plants on the lean and mean side, excess lush growth around here tends to invite insect attacks and in that small a space, would just impede airflow and have to be removed later on anyway. Most of my varieties are also often very sensitive to fertility, at the first sign of some extra food they will explode into growth, but if kept a little lean form compact, hardy bushes.

Now let's see if I can get some pictures working... wish me luck folks!

Thanks for all the info.