CFL / Rubbermaid grow - GreenPassion.org - Dedicated to Medicinal Cannabis Cultivation and Education

necros · #1 (**permalink**) 07-15-2009, 06:43 PM

This is my first post. I wasn't planning on soliciting advice as there is a wealth of info on this site to read. But I was told that they will close my account if I don't make a post in 48 hours so I thought I would use this oppurtunity to tell everyone 'what I'm up to'!

When I started I had this dream of growing discreetly in a Rubbermaid container. I had high hopes of creating a jungle environment where I could hardly keep the plants contained as they pushed the lid open. Alas, it's only a dream at this point!

I've killed one White Widow clone already by trying to remove the rockwool from it. This is my second clone, a Chemdog D which came in the brown puck stuff which I just kept on this time.

It was healthier looking when I first bought it approximately two weeks ago. The roots looked extremely healthy when I first bought it so I put it in soil right away. The clone was already up to eight nodes, and I thought I should 'top' it to make a bushy plant. So it was topped and transplanted into soil within 24 hours of each other which was a bad start I think. It's now starting to recover from the topping, showing some new leaves at the top after two weeks.

On top of that I made the newb mistake of using nutes with such a young plant, hence the yellow tips (pretty sure that's why). I flushed the soil with clean water a week ago which helped I think.

Lighting-wise is pretty laughable. I need to keep the heat down so I'm starting out using three 12-inch T5 cool whites. She goes in the direct sun for approximately 5 hours a day, then sits below the T5's, almost touching the top of the lights since they don't get very hot. I've done some measurements with my photo light meter that look something like this:

direct sunlight through a window screen: ~2000 fc
window sill without direct sunlight (shade): ~625 fc
under the T5's, approx .5-1 inch: ~700 fc
under the T5's, approx 2 inches: ~650 fc

All measurements used the dome of the lightmeter pointing straight up.

So my main question is, where do I go from here? I would like to keep the heat & risk of fire to a minimum. Right now I'm running an all 12 volt system in the Rubbermaid itself which I think is a good idea since it cuts down on fire risk. These are the next steps which I'm planning on taking:

1. Add ventilation in the form of a small computer fan.
2. Add a new 'main' light in the form of a homemade LED array
3. Remove foil and spraypaint flat white
4. Add a homemade charcol filter (this may come later when it gets stinky)

Any advice on LED lighting is appreciated. I'm thinking of using 10mm LEDs since they have a much higher light output than 5mm, but I'm concerned about heat. Is it possible to put together an LED array that equals ~2000 fc without a lot of heat? Is that why HID hut puts a big fan on their UFOs?

I'm also open to using more CFL's but I just don't think they are cutting it.

I found these useful links for LED DIY, still need to read through it though!

http://www.ledgrow.eu/
http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/autos...ys-t28041.html
http://www.ledengin.com/index.php

FrozenBananaSnackz · #2 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 04:13 PM

How did the plant come along?

necros · #3 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 04:32 PM

Things are going very slowly for various reasons: money, time, lighting ....

Topping the clone was a bad idea. It took probably 1-2 weeks to really recover from that. I did get some good growth after that but it was still a little slow for my taste. Eventually I came to the conclusion that growing one plant in a rubbermaid box wasn't going to give me the results that I wanted. I haven't given up on the rubbermaid box just yet though.

Which led me to the decision to take some cuttings and make my first attempt at cloning. I tested one small cutting at first and it was still alive 5 days later so I did three more. The first one has the roots coming out of the plug and is in hydro now (it surprised me how successful my first one was, there were probably over a dozen little root buds coming out). The others are still in plugs under domes waiting for the roots to show.

Since soil growing is a little slow for my taste I made the decision to switch to hydro. It's suppose to be much faster so I'm excited to see if that's the case. I've also gained around three inches of vertical space (which is huge in this small box) from switching from a potted plant to a shallow reservoir. It's a smaller (hi-top which i reversed) rubbermaid box within the larger 18 gallon rubbermaid. I bought some Foxfarm hydro grow big which I'll start adding when they get more mature.

I also spray painted the inside. Flat black first then flat white. This was a big pain because of the fumes and also there's few places around Los Angeles where you can spray paint discreetly. The first run after drying 24 hours didn't work so I had to repaint. It mostly keeps the light in but there's a couple of spots where there is thin paint that I need to put some white duct tape or something, because I'm finished painting. Don't underestimate this step, it's a real pain.

Still need to add ventilation, filtration, and fabricate a main LED light. I've done a ton of research on DIY LED lighting and I think I'm going to add a bofin style breadboard type but with more bands, I'm thinking maybe as much as a 10-band! Just waiting on the money and time for that. My goal is to have it done by the time these are ready to flower. I can veg these with 5 hours of sunlight per day and these weak 8 watt cfls.

Other additions will be a DIY carbon filter & a yeast co2 factory which I hope to have in place by the time it flowers. Not sure if the yeast factory will be effective because my hydro air pump puts out 3.2 liters per minute, that air has to go somewhere. But I'm looking for any advantage to give this box over sitting on the window sill in the sun.

A big positive to a rubbermaid grow is that it's small and easy to manage the small space. But that is also a big negative because the plants need room to grow. I'm going to try to grow these in a spiral to see if I can get more height and bud sites. I'm not sure if this is even possible, all of the grow journals I've read that have LST just bend them over. I calculated that a four inch spiral or circle equals one foot of vertical growth. If I can grow these with five spirals within about 12 inches then that would equal a five foot plant. Never done this before so i'm not sure if I'm crazy or what!

necros · #4 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 07:03 PM

Progress is slow with the box but the plants continue to grow unabated. They have reached the limit of space in the box and I've yet to start flower!

The jungle like atmosphere that I wished for in the first post is in effect for sure. Heat suprisingly isn't a problem because the water pump is pumping 3.2 liters of air per minute which keeps it cool, but it's almost pure water vapor so my humidity goes through the roof.

I've designed a small ventilation unit but I have not a clue where to buy this stuff. I'm hoping to get some advice on where to purchase this hardware. It needs to be really small obviously, and able to move a large amount of air. I think noise will be minimized since the fan itself will be inside the box. If anyone knows where to buy small duct tubing and mounting let me know. Also the fan needs to run off of 12 volts.

jangel · #5 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 07:19 PM

To get better heat movement, and so the heat can actually get out, I would reverse your cool air intake and your hot air exhaust. Hot air rises, cold air comes in and pushes the hot air up and the fan sucks out the hot air. Also, you will need an opening 3 times the size of the hole of the air exhaust, preferably opposite your cool air intake. So say if you have a 3 in fan, you will need 3 X 3 in = 9 inches in size hole.

jangel · #6 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 07:21 PM

you can still use your cooling idea, if you need it, but it might be better to use it in the space in front of a fan, than outside the space.

necros · #7 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 08:20 PM

Would exhausting the humid air work better? The way I designed it was to bring in cool outside air to the bottom of the container with passive exit vents on the lid.

I'm trying to save space since it's so small. I'm hoping I can get away with only one fan whether it be intake or exhaust.

When the lid is on it goes from 40-50% to humidity to 99% humidity in about 10-20 minutes. I need to fix that so I can start flowering these babies!

jangel · #8 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 08:52 PM

yes, you will get all over a better flow. It will be pushing the hot, humid air out and because of this sucking action, it will lower the temps more and the humidity. It will make a major difference. All you have to do is switch the fan to the top, and possibly enlarge your passive air hole low in the box. You will get it closer to the humidity of your room that you take the cool air from. And if it gets really hot you could even attach an intake vent pipe near your exterior window and really cool it down, depending where you are.

Peace

jangel · #9 (**permalink**) 09-26-2009, 08:54 PM

I do not think you need another fan at all. Just switch them and it will work fine. A fan at the cool air intake actually can slow down the air exchange. Just think about it: Air will not allow a vacuum, so as fast as that air is being pushed out of the grow box, it will rush in the passive air intake to fill that area. That is why you need a larger passive cool air intake, to balance it out.

Peace

sabasi · #10 (**permalink**) 09-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Thanks Jangel once again!! I am in the process of putting the new cab together and as much work that has been put into it, it would be a shame to mess this part of it up lol

necros · #11 (**permalink**) 09-30-2009, 06:22 PM

Never thought I would find 12 vdc fans at Radio Shack! Got a 4 inch for the main cab exhast and two small 40mm fans for the (work in progress) LED lights.

The duct design above is too much for this small box so I'm just going to strap this 4 inch fan on the side and put some sort of ghetto hood over it to keep the light from going out.