Hi all,

Check out these pics and tell me what is going wrong. This particular plant had some lower necrotic leaves before being transplanted into my bubbler. It seems like the problem is spreading though. I changed the res yesterday with fresh water, Ph'd, less than half strength nutes, seven teaspoons of Epsom salts and five drops of Superthrive. One or two other plants had the same necrotic leaves on the bottom before being transplanted also.

I've been keeping the Ph right a 6.0 since they've been in the DWC bubbler. Could it be some sort of nutrient lockout going on or even the beginnings of nutrient burn? Before changing the res they were on the same amount of nutes, no, one teaspoon more. I did work up to that dose over a few days time. When I changed the res I added all the nutes at once (to a separate container, added the Epsom salts, Superthrive, Ph down and then added that mix to the res).

Could it just be a diseased or weak plant? What scares me is the others following suit. Well, this is how you learn to grow I guess. I'm thinking of draining the res, Phing it again, adding less nutrients, no Superthrive and no Epsom salts this time around. Hopefully that will help things out a bit but I'd really like to know exactly what is going on before I change the res again. I hope someone has gone through this and can tell me how to correct the problem.

Thanks,

-the Corsican

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My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Here are a couple of more pics so you can see what is going on a little better:

These are mainly from the one plant but one or two photos are from the leaves of another plant. I added 104 more watts of cfls yesterday also. The only thing that has changed was the Epsom salts and the lights. I did wind up replacing half of the water in the res a few minutes ago, just in case it could be nutrient burn. Before doing that I checked the Ph and it went up from 6.0 to between 6.5 - 7.0 (I'm using General Hydroponics Ph solution. I have to go by color so I cannot give a perfect Ph value, only an approximate value)

I also added a pic of the roots.

-the Corsican.

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__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Hey there the roots look good to me. But the tops of the plants could be burning. You said you just changed half of your res so that could be a start.

What nutes are you using? You said 1/2 strength that still may be a bit rich. Are you measuring everything correctly ratio wise?

Hang in there we can get this fixed tonight all will be okay.

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Hi Lucky,

I just changed out half of the res (added fresh water and Ph'd it to 6.0). Since I changed half the volume of water the nutes are now at 1/4 strength. I'm using FoxFarm Grow Big Concentrate (accidentally bought it instead of the Hydro FF nutes, absent-mindedness). I'm using a syringe that I marked to equal one teaspoon.

I also moved the lights away from the plants just in case it is radiant heat doing the damage. My airflow is good, temps are good, humidity is a bit low (in the mid to high thirties, it could be a lot better) and Ph is now stable at 6.0.

Like I mentioned above, when I changed the res yesterday I Ph'd it to 6.0. When I checked it today, right before changing out half the volume of the res, it was in the 6.5-7.0 range. This means the plants probably took in a bunch of nutes ( I think anyways) over night.

I hope the extra information helps,

Thanks Lucky,

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

It's hard for a new grower like me to tell the difference between all the possible problems. Some of the deficiencies look very similar.

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My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Keep an eye on that pH. The less nutes the better as per Lucky's statements. Looks like a bit of burn, but I haven't had to deal with any fungi, so that's an outside. But it looks a little like burn I've experienced. I flushed out and dropped the nutes to next to nothing for a couple days before bringing it up some. It's on the bottom growth, the older stuff, so it's had more time to take in the over-dose, that hopefully is why it's making it's appearance there. Same thing happened to mine, burnt, showing from the bottom growth. A few days of growth with the lowered intake allowed it to even out. I usually keep my pH just under 6.0, like around 5.8. Both are in the acceptable range, though. Hope it straightens out quick.

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Hi Jigsy, thanks.

I'm curious, do you think I should have drained the res fully instead of just replacing half of the volume? I figured by replacing only half of the volume the plants would still need some nutes. I figured if I just used straight up Ph'd water without nutes that might also have an adverse effect. What do you think?

-the Corsican.

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My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Hi there I would leave it for now. It's hard to say if it's just the nutes or some other combination of things. The problem is if you do many things you really wont know what it was so you may run into the same problem again easily. I would make a correction wait 4-6 hours then if no change try something else.

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What you have is Mn Manganese Toxicity, slow growth, loss of vigor, compounded by low humidity.
Excess Mn causes a deficiency also of Fe (iron) Zn (zinc)
Your adding Epsom salts only intensified the issue.

I agree Lucky, will do.

Professor Lumix, How you doin'?

The growth has been great actually, not slow at all, at least not since I transplanted into the DWC from the Hempy cups. Your analysis is very interesting and you could be right, I just don't know yet. I will say this, it was after the res change that things went south. The only thing I did differently was adding the salts and giving them more light.

So how would I correct the problem if you are indeed correct?

Thanks for the input so far guys, I'm learning. Oh yeah, I'm probably at quarter strength nute wise after dumping half the res.

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

I've been sticking to a Ph of 6.0 as my average. Should I ever try and lower it to around 5.7-5.8? I'm using the GH liquid Ph tester kit so I have to go by color.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Quality Nutes and No Mo ES for now, smoke a joint and call me when it's 420... now

**** man! I ain't got no weeds!

So should I have emptied the whole res instead of leaving half of the original solution in there? That means there is still about 3&1/2 teaspoons of Epsom Salts in my res. And if the answer is yes, reflush, then do I add the nutes at 1/4 strength, the SuperThrive and the Ph down to get the Ph to 6.0? Also, did you see my question under "P.S." in my last post? If so please give me you opinion.

I'm still going to watch things carefully like Lucky recommended so I don't wind up doing more harm then good. That means if I do change the res I'll wait until 10:30 p.m. my time (Eastern Standard).

Thanks brother,

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Yea flush the mush, start over, good 68 tempts, 5.8 Ph, 300-400 PPM

You would not be hurting them to completely change out the res for fresh ph's water. Leave them for a day or so until they improve then start with 1/4 nutes only and see where they are in another day. At best you will flush them completely and start over once they settled down.

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Good call, lumix!

Would a fresh start again shock them for reasons of temp, Ph and new nutes?

You are correct. Our posts overlapped there.

Something I need to mention. I do not have a EC meter so I can't say what my PPM's are and have no idea what my tap water PPM's are. I have to go by what I add according to the nutrient bottle. I know this much, the FoxFarm Grow Big concentrate is strong so I have to be careful. One quarter nutes would be 2&1/2 teaspoons (I use a syringe) full of nutes. I built up to 4 teaspoons over a period of a week or so and had no problems but I think I'll go to a quarter and take it from there.

So since I don't have an EC meter and can't afford one right now is what I'm doing the best way to keep things even and safe or is there a better way?

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Okay, you guys just confused the hell out of me. Wait to re-flush because it could cause shock or go ahead and do a complete flush later on tonight? And if the answer is yes do I add nutes tonight or should I wait until tomorrow morning?

Since I'm using General Hydroponic's Ph test kit should I try and get the color somewhere between orange and yellow for the Ph to be at 5.8? Sorry for the crazy questions fellas but I gotta learn.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

I'm like a Mom and it would be gnawing at me to get Johnny's food tray clean, then with a tiny cookie of nutes and water.