Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for the help. I just have a few questions and was hoping you fine people could assist me with some answers. In the past I have had a couple small grows before. I grew one plant outdoors all the way into it's third week of flowering when I discovered it was a hermaphrodite and killed it (I was not going to risk getting caught for seedy bud) and I've grown a few plants inside before all the way through with no real issues. Now I am ready to move on to much bigger and better things as I've been researching hydroponics and all sorts of growing for almost a year now and I've decided to dedicate a certain area to a full scale hydroponic grow.

A quick overview of my planned grow operation is this. I will have two separate light proof completely stealth rooms. The vegetative room will be 6ft by 5ft and the flowering room will be 8ft by 6ft. I plan to grow the entire crop hydroponically from seed to bud. The flowering growth will be done in 6 or 8 Rubbermaid Fogging/Aeroponic systems, the vegetative growth will be done on a 2'x4' ebb and flow table, and the seeds and clones will have their own apparatuses on a set of shelves on one of the walls of the vegetative room.

My first question has to do with the seed and clone germination. I plan to have two different types of systems for the clones and seeds. I will hand water the seeds in rockwool cubes on a bed of perlite on a heating mat until they have a developed a root system strong enough to go into the hydroponic system. Then the seeds will be a simple bubble system. Each separate seed system (I plan on having two) will house a set number of seeds. The rockwool cubes will be on a wide screen so that the plant roots dangle into the bubbling nutrient solution. This system will support them until they are about 9'' tall and strong enough to move to the ebb and flow table. The seeds will most likely always remain mothers and I will probably only flower clones.

It is a rough plan and there are more details but I am trying to keep it short. My basic question here is do you see a problem with that idea at all? Or any advise to push the seeds any harder or insure a higher strong plant rate?

The clones will have their own system which will be similar but I am going to combine the bubbling system previously mention with a misting system on a timer placed bellow the humidity dome to keep the leaves nice and humid during that first week or so before they develop roots. Each system will house 6 plants and I will have several systems. The transferring of the clones to the ebb and flow table isn't the issue so much as doing it in a way that I can transfer them to the flowering room when I need to.

Since I will be changing my method of growth from ebb and flow to an enclosed aeroponic system I am not sure how to put the clones on the ebb and flow table. My idea is to put them in netted pots with Clay Hydroton like they will be situated in the flowering apparatuses and simply place these pots in the hydroton on the ebb and flow table. This way I can simply take the pot and gently remove it from the table when the plant is ready to replace a harvested plant. Do you guys see a problem with this?

Thanks so much if you can help answer my questions.

Tim

I will point our hydro gurus in this direction. Welcome to GreenPassion and please start a thread in the Introduce yourself forum so we can properly welcome you.

Peace

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j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


My Little Grow LST'ing w/Hardware

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Haha sure thing. I've got to get to work now but I will check in and introduce myself later this evening.

Hey Tom, I see what you want to do and that, but you are going to have a hard time pulling the plants cube and the roots out of the hydrotone with out damage to the roots.If you put them in a 5" pot filled with hydrotone on the flood tray you will be able to trans plant them easier to your other system.You can manage the roots and pots for the trans plant.Post some pixs if you can we would like to see your setup. Peace

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Anything I may say or do is stickly for entertainment only.This is all make believe and is not To believe by me or anyonehttp:\\www.greenpassion.org/f73/over-grow-government-ogg-2009-what-8722/

It's not a setup just yet. Right now I'm doing the construction on the room and getting everything in order so I buy just what I need. I'm a planner and I want to be perfectly prepared before I take the final steps in starting a grow of this scale.

So are you saying that by the time the clone is ready to be pulled from the ebb and flow table and placed in the lid of my aeroponic system the roots will be far enough through the 3" pot and so dense that they would be damaged by being pulled form the table?

P.S. It's Tim :P

You guys must be working opposite shifts! LOL! He will get back to you, Tim....no worries. Take a look through the hydro section and see what you can see.

Peace

__________________
Life,
j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


My Little Grow LST'ing w/Hardware

My Outdoor Odyssey 2008 BONSAI MUMS

My Little Grow Indoor To Outdoor 2009

Haha alright I love reading stickies.

Hi Tim,
I was asked by our Jangel to try to help you, and I have seen Toke is on board already so few things could be said after his knowledge, but I just wanted to add these points. If you were to transplant from aeroponic to ebb and flow you would not have problem as the roots would not be a problem but doing the contrary you will FOR SURE have problem loosing their roots from the hydroton/net pots. Roots grow soooo fast in hydro than in a week you will be amazed
My advice would be to start with aeroponic and finish with aeroponic (or finish with ebb and flow, in case you want to use a combination of both systems) or starting with Ebb and Flow and finish with Ebb and Flow. Aeroponic requires more attention (experience) but your roots will be healthier and that means better plants.
Now, my second advice is as follow, you have mentioned rookwool cubes, but if you can avoid using them you will save yourself a lot of work (I have used them the right way, I have Ph´ed them before using them, I have covered them from light but they are very easy to get mold, algaes, etc and creating root rot in your system, something you want to avoid all the time
About the seeds you only need a couple of dishes and papertowels. Avoid sophisticated systems sold by Grow Shops, this is a proven method, your seeds will sprout for sure with the above mentioned method (there are several tutorial in GP for seed sprouting) Your clones will not require an extra space if you have an aeroponic box for your veg cycle, throw them in there and watch them grow
Do not be afraid, hydro seems more difficult than it really is (do not take me wrong I was also affraid like s...) but with the right help (GP members) it will be way easier, you can bet on that. One last advice, when you ask questions upload pictures, it will help ppl sees what you are talking about
Peace, and keep us posted

Good advice 4ever.

Listen to this cat Tim, he knows what he's talking about. His first large scale grow was amazing.

4ever,

How do you start out your plants once they have cracked?

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

surprised hatch hasn't put his 0.02 in yet..

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Well, Here I Be!!!EH!!!

First Off, I'm Glad You Are Just In The Planning Stage, I Think You Are Trying To Involve To Many Types Of Systems.

I Use 2" Baskets & Neoprene's All The Way, Granted Yes I Just Do Clones, But If I Started Some Seeds' I Would Use A 2" Rapid Started Plug, Ounce It Was Germinated Put In The Plug, After They Get Big Enough To Get A Neoprene On Them, Put Them In The Basket & Neoprene, But In My Aero-Bubbler-Ponic Pods To Veg. A Bit, Then When Time To Flower You Just Pull It Out Of Those Pods & Put Them In My Aeroponic Pods To Finish Off..
With That Said, The Advantages Are Ounce In The 2" Baskets & Neoprene They Are Easy To Manage, When Changing To The Next System You Don't Have To Disturb The Main Root Mass, You Will Sometimes Have To Trim Them A Bit When They Get All Entangled, But This Is No Big Deal, They Grow Back Very Fast. Other Things Would Be, No Need For Extra Medium Or Equipment, & I Guess One Of The Main Things Is Everything Exchanges Well Together, Then After Plants Have Finished Just Wash & Clean Up The Baskets & Neoprenes, & The System, & Its All Ready To Go Again, & With Regular Res Changes Every 10 To 14 Days Nothing Gets Bad Anyway & Everything Is Easily Kept Clean.

This Is Just My $00.02 Worth & Just A Thought & Something To Think About, Hope It Will Help Ya Think Things Out..

Check Ya Later..Cheers`;`Hatch`;`

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Thank you very much for the advice.

By seed germination I didn't actually mean the cracking and germinating them. I meant from early tap root to strong enough to go in a hydroponic setup. I should have been clearer. I want to start the seedlings in a hydroponic setup especially because once they are in soil they are pretty much stuck in soil as far as I know. There is no moving them to hydro from there. I have used the paper towel technique every time I truly germinate the seeds, I didn't mean any fancy way of making them pop. I'm not that newbie :P

I am very open to suggestion, but I would prefer something in the way of starting ebb and flow and ending aero. I mean I will give props for creativity if you guys can help. The reason is that for my vegetation and the fact I want to continually harvest plants every two weeks an ebb and flow table makes perfect sense. I can put the plants wherever I want them, I can pack as many or few in the hydroton as I want and it is simple to make and maintain.

And aeroponic for flowering is simply the best choice. I am going to have 4 plants per Rubbermaid lid. And I am going to have 4 or 8 rubbermaid containers depending on how expensive building the room is. Whatever is left from that budget goes into buying material. I don't want to downgrade when moving from veg to flowering.

And for the rockwool what should I use as a replacement? Jiffy plugs? I suppose that's an easier question to answer. Whilst on the subject I will talk about the cloner. I wanted to build an apparatus that I could place the humidity dome on top of, I thought this was necessary for the first week of a clone's life? I was thinking bubble system with a couple misterheads above the the tray to mist the inside of the dome periodically. The clones would only be in it for a week to two weeks tops. I know I can just use a tray/humidity dome, perlite, jiffy plugs and a heating tray but what fun would that be?

The idea is to have the most efficient growing chamber I can. Initial cost is not so important, but I don't want it to be outrageous. I'm not really intimidated by hydro I figure if I learn the hardest first I will have a leg up. I'm a quick learner and have been doing a lot of research so I think I can handle it. Plus I don't intend to start without all of the right tools which I am sure a lot of people fail because of so I am fairly confident.

Thanks man, good to see some people who know what they are talking about with some reputation trying to help. None of that on grasscity. I am definitely in the planning stages, I want everything practically blueprinted on paper before I begin purchasing, play around with things before I put them together, and then put them together and test them without plants before using plants, then with bag seed before I purchase good seeds. I am a big person on planning and it will probably benefit me here.

I'm afraid I'm finding it hard to follow you man. I am not sure what systems you use and I'm not sure what you mean by neoprenes. It just seemed a system which could house many plants at a time would be great for vegetation.

Not to mention this months contest on Hydro growing techniques! Very informative!!

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Our first grow
http://www.greenpassion.org/f22/lesb...-closet-13859/

Sorry If I Was Confusing, I'll Try Again, Okay First I'll Start With The 2" Baskets & 2" Neoprenes, The Basket Is Basically Just For Holding The Plant In The Pod Top & The Neoprene Holds The Plant In The Basket.



Here Is A Inside Look At One Of My Aero-Bubbler-Ponic Pods.
Here Are Some Clones In The Aero-Bubbler-Ponic Pods.
Here are The Root's That Grow Through The Baskets.
I Make Clones In These Pods, I Can Veg. In These Pods, I Have Some The Same Style Just Bigger For Vegging In, Keep Mom's/Donor Plants.

Here Are Some Of The Different Tops I Use, I Have Top's With 35 To 40 Sites (holes) For Cloning, Then Some With 15 To 20 For Vegging/Flowering In.


I Flower In Aeroponic Pods, Unlike The Aero-Bubbler-Ponic Pods, These Don't Hold Water In The Bottom For The Res, They All Drain To A Bigger Res & The Root System's Just Hang In The Air.
And As You Can See I Use Just 2" Basket's & Neoprenes So Everything Will Enter-Change With Each Other, & Ounce A Plant Is Rooted In That Basket It Will Stay In The Same Basket Tell It Has Been Flowered & Harvested, Then I Cut Out The Root's In The Basket Clean Them & They Are Ready To Go Again.

Well, Hope That Was Better???,,If Not I Will Try Again..

Check Ya Later, Cheers`;`Hatch`;`

__________________

I think I love you...

Thank you so much, that was very very helpful. I have one or two more questions now though. The first is what is the gph rating of the pumps you used in your veg. containers, same for flowering (also why keep the nutrient solution in a different reservoir for the flowering pods). And about how much did your entire setup cost you to build?

Also do you just stack the neoprene in there until it sits flush on top of the basket? Could I use one neoprene and some hydroton instead if I preferred.

Your Welcome, Sorry I Didn't Get It Right The First Time.

In The Aero-Bubbler-Ponic Pods I Keep The Mister's Count To 10 & Use A 258gph Fountain Pump, The Spray Is Okay For These, But A Good Rule Of Thumb & To Go By Is Every 7 Mister's On One System, Needs A Pump Rated For 250gph, So Like In My Aeroponic Pods Each Have 7 Mister's And I Have Four Pods On A System And Have 1000gph +++ For Each System.

There Are A Few Reasons Why I Have The Separate Res Feeding The Flowering Plants, One Is Just The Fact Of Four Pods To System, It Makes It Easier When Changing The Water In The Res's, I Like For The Roots To Have A Good Airing Time Between Mistings, & Have Found It's Best Against Root Diseases For This Process & Not Submerged In Water In Late Flowering.

You Will Just Need One Neoprene To A Basket, I Don't Like The Hydroton Clay Pellets Or Rock-Wool, Grow Plugs (i will only use rapid rooter plugs if i have to start seeds, & as soon as they can be cloned, i loose the plug), But All Of These Hold To Much Moister & Cause Root Rot Over A Period Of Time, The Clay Pellets, No Matter How Much You Wash Them, They Are Made Of Dirt & They Break Down & Will Clog Your System & Misters.

About How Much I Have In My System????,,You Have To Figure I Have Seven Different Grow Chambers Each With Its Own Exhaust's & Intake Systems All Self Contained, Man I Would Have To Think About It & Get Back To Ya, Or Maybe Just One Chamber???,,That's A Good Question, I Might Not Want To Know, & Plus I'm Always Adding Stuff!!!LOL!!!

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Hey Hatch,

Excellent post.

I have a question about Rapid Rooter plugs since I'm using them. You said that you ditch the plugs...

..."(i will only use rapid rooter plugs if i have to start seeds, & as soon as they can be cloned, i loose the plug)"...

Because you are growing using aeroponics? Why do you loose the plugs exactly? What are the pros and cons of using RR plugs in Hydro (and using hydroton as a grow medium)?

I've got all my seedlings in RR plugs and I'm wondering how you can "loose the plugs" since the root system is extensively interwoven into the plugs?
Later today or later this morning I'm going to start a thread in the Hydro section because I have a lot of important questions. I hope you'll be willing to help me out by answering them? You and Toke are the resident Hydro experts and though I'm very competent with my hands (good at building things no matter the genre) I'm still very new to Hydroponics and have loads to learn about it.

I appreciate the help. I'll be posting pictures so you can see what I'm working with.

Thanks,

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

No that's cool, I don't mind getting my threads jacked :P

Sorry brother, didn't mean to step on your feet. Hatch was talking about some RR specific things so I figured I'd ask him a few questions. If you want I'll remove the post from your thread? I didn't mean any harm.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"