my attempt to maximize space usage - GreenPassion.org - Dedicated to Medicinal Cannabis Cultivation and Education

QuentinQuark · #1 (**permalink**) 11-09-2009, 11:56 PM

Hey folks!

Well I recently had to give up the bedroom that I was using to grow in, and the only space I am now able to use is a little 32" x 32" closet.

Here's what I did.

First I found the biggest tent that would fit in that space. It's called a GrowLab and I got the 31" x 31" size.

I wanted to do aeroponics (previous grow was DWC, what a PAIN IN THE ASS) so I built a frame to fit inside the tent, that would house a dedicated reservoir below the aero chambers that are going to hold the plants.

I got this idea to use the storage totes from my DWC grow, and chop the top lip and stuff off so that they're just a flimsy plastic tub, very easy to work with and cram into whatever space I want (within reason).

Now I grow SoG, so lots of small plants close together with little to no veg time. So I decided to get a little aggressive and load up this space with 36 plant sites.

The sprayers are mounted upside-down under the spray bars, I used the spinner style ones. Three sprayers per bar, two bars per chamber, total 12 sprayers.

I also crammed a cooltubed 1000w HPS in there, a little much but it's what I had left over from my previous grow, can't really afford to buy any new equipment right now.

So check it out, let me know what you all think, any questions fire away!

The pics:

What I'm showing here is the "cant strip" pieces that I used for the corners. I needed vertical supports for my frame, and I would normally use 2x2s but they take up too much space, so I asked if there is anything like a 2x2 but cut in half diagonally. Turns out there is, called "cant strips", they're perfect! Good vertical support, without eating into the usable area of the frame. Later on you will see that I modified things slightly to take the edges off the corners so that the tent poles fit snugly, you'll see pics later.

Also shown here are the storage totes, with the tops removed so they're kind of floppy and easy to work with.

Also the beginning of the riser. I used a riser for the reservoir, so that I could bottom mount the drain so that I can use the same pump that powers the sprayers to completely empty the reservoir.

QuentinQuark · #2 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:00 AM

The beginnings of the totes being mounted to the frame, I just used pan head screws and some nice wide flat washers, pre-drilled the holes and screwed them in.

You can see the riser, I didn't put a 2x4 under one part of it, the reservoir drain will sit in here so that I can slide it in and out if needed. I cut part of the top off with a jigsaw.

Here you can see a couple of design changes in the frame, firstly the corner removal that I described earlier, and secondly I changed the position of the reservoir so that it spans the back section instead of runs along one of the sides. That way I have the entire front area to work with, store stuff, etc.

QuentinQuark · #3 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:13 AM

Good detailed shot of the riser.

The frame with both tubs mounted.

Spray bars installed (thanks to Hatch for teaching/inspiring me to work with PVC).

I will take a second to explain how I mounted the spray bars up high, they look like they're floating. Basically, you see that the two bars for each tub end with end caps, those are slip end caps that are cemented on. At the other end, you have the slip elbows, and then a tee, now this tee is slip connection to the elbows, but thread connection to the frame. There's a "nipple" which is a little piece of PVC that is male threaded on both ends, one end is connected to the threaded tee, then it feeds through the frame (sealed with grommet) and into the 90degree female elbows seen there.

Two shots of the drains, one from inside the tub and one from below, these will just dribble back into the reservoir directly below, this will give some aeration to increase dissolved oxygen. Plus it sounds like a rainforest, very relaxing!

QuentinQuark · #4 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:32 AM

Ok, first pic here is the fittings, this isn't EXACTLY how it ended up but it's pretty close. My design principle here was to make the operation of this grow as easy as possible. So things like cleaning the filter, checking ph/ppm, draining/filling reservoir, all very quick, easy, and with minimal mess. I made liberal use of those "quick-fit" hose connectors (not shown, but if anyone wants details just ask).

Hmm ok I got some duplicate pictures in here and I have no idea how to get rid of them, sorry about that.

Ok so then we have the whole apparatus assembled, and then installed in the tent under the HPS.

2nd last pic shows the reservoir, sitting on the riser, with water pouring down from the aero chambers, now you can see why I moved it to the back instead of along one side! Also this shows how I made it easier to get the reservoir in and out. That cross bar that is supporting the reservoir, it isn't fastened in with anything, it's held in place by pressure between the reservoir and those two blocks on either side.

So the basic flow is pretty simple, the res has a drain in the bottom, connected to a filter by this kink-proof hose I found. The pump is after the filter, and it sucks water from the reservoir (via the drain in the bottom), through the filter, and upwards towards to the spray bars. Now you see there's a little tee off halfway up, that is multi-purpose. Firstly, with the top valve open, the side valve closed, and the pump running, this is spraying. Secondly, with the top valve open, the side valve open, and the pump running, this will divert some water out the side so I can take a ph/ppm reading or whatever. Thirdly, with the top valve closed, the side valve open, and the pump running, I connect up a hose to this tee and I can drain the reservoir into the bathtub in an attached bathroom. And lastly, with the top valve closed, the side valve open, and the pump off, I can fill the reservoir using the same hose connected the same way, from a faucet in the attached bathroom (actually I am going to put a little tee on the toilet water line and put a quick-fit hose connection on there too).

And then you see the sprayers in action, with that poor little girl I am trying to save from my previous grow. She's not doing too well right now lol!

operator1 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:35 AM

looks nice... very inventive. I look forward to seeing more pics in the future. The only thing I wonder is if the frame will hold the weight of the water for an extended period of time, especially after it gets a little humid. I'm sure the lumber is weather treated though, you thought of everything else from what I can see.

operator1 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:36 AM

never mind...lol

operator1 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:41 AM

are those charcoal briquets on the floor??? I'm inspired by this as I have an extremely small space also, although slightly larger than that. I'm doing dwc now for the first time, depending on how this goes I may have to try a set up like yours next time... although I've never done a SOG grow either, lots of time to learn though.

QuentinQuark · #8 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 12:52 AM

Operator:

I think you already figured this out, but for everyone's benefit, there will never be any water weight on the frame. The aero chambers have drains that drain all water (well there's like 3/4" in the bottom) into the reservoir. The reservoir will be the heavy one, which is why the riser is built like a tank. I didn't use treated wood though... I guess we'll see!

Those aren't briquettes, they're little neoprene pacmans I made to hold the plants inside the collars. I grow mediumless so they need that support. Those ones got ruined, I boiled them to clean them and they didn't take it too well. I got lots, I made them with a hole saw attachment on my drill (I got a hole saw attachment without the middle pilot part) and went to town on these fitness mats, you can also use the play mats for kids that you find in toy stores.

Glad I could inspire!

chuckd420 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 02:19 AM

That's a nice setup, I can't wait to see it in action.

Hatch · #10 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 01:39 PM

Looking Nice Bro, Can't Wait To See It All Come Together & All In Action For Ya!!!

Best Of Luck, Wishes & Karma On Getting It Up & Running. Check Ya Later.

QuentinQuark · #11 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 03:15 PM

So I have had her running for a bit, and trying to get all the kinks worked out and not kill my last remaining girl in the process. It's not going that well!

So the way this tent is set up, there is three large passive air intakes near the bottom, and an active air exhaust in the "roof" to which I have hooked up a hefty 6" centif fan.

The first problem I tackled was with major heat issues in the bottom half, where the reservoir is. Anyone who has grown hydro knows this is a recipe for disaster. What was happening is since it's in a closet, the air was going out the top exhaust, filling the closet top to bottom, and that hot air was getting sucked right back into the passive intakes at the bottom. I had temps near 30C. Quick and easy fix, I put some insulation board at the top of the tent to isolate the area above the tent from the areas beside the tent, so the hot air went into the room (there's no door on the closet) and the passive intakes drew in the cooler air near the floor. Problem solved, res zone temps dropped to a perfect 20C (68F).

Second problem, and frankly something I could use some help with. The upper half of the tent, the area where the plants themselves are (if you notice from the pics, the chamber lids basically split this tent in half vertically), is a blistering 40C (104F) WAY TOO HOT. I notice that the top half of the tent is sucking in from the vacuum of the fan. My thoughts are that if I could prop out the sides a little, get more air flow from the passive intake into the top half, it would pull more air through which might lower the temps. The cooltube and exhaust fan are removing all of the thermal heat, but I think doing this will remove more of the radiant heat and bring things to within a suitable temperature. I will try this out and let you all know, but if you have any other suggestions let's hear them! Obviously a smaller light would help, but I can't afford any additional equipment yet, I do have a 400w MH that I may have to use if I can't get the temps in the upper half under control.

Hatch · #12 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 05:12 PM

Is There Any Way You Can Run Ducting And Exhaust The Heat To The Attic???
Also, The Cooltube, Is It Ducted & Exhausting To The Attic As Well??

I Have My 1000 watter's Ducted Like This, & I'm Able To Keep My Temp's At Or Below 78*f. With The Texas Heat Outside In The 100*f., So I Know You Can Get Yours Cooled Off.

QuentinQuark · #13 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 05:47 PM

So let me take a second and explain the airflow in this tent.

Passive intakes near the bottom as I mentioned.

Up top, it's like this:

charcoal filter -> cooltube -> exhaust fan -> out of tent

I am going to exhaust the heat into another room, but I don't think the problem here is that warm/hot air is being drawn into the passive intakes. The temperature of the air being drawn in is quite cool, in fact I don't think it could get any cooler without active cooling (A/C).

Either the lids are doing too good a job of splitting the tent in half vertically and so the exhaust fan is being prevented from pulling enough air through to cool things off, or the radiant heat off a 1000w is just too much for this small of a space.

In case it is the former, I have jammed some rolled up cardboard between the frame and the sides of the tent, that will allow WAY more airflow between the bottom half of the tent where the passive intakes are and the top half of the tent where the exhaust fan is trying to get rid of all that heat.

If it is the latter, then there is no alternative but to use a smaller light.

Hatch · #14 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 08:09 PM

Well, Hopefully The Changes You Described Will Help, If You Are Exhausting To Another Room??, & Have A Long Run Of Ducting??,,When You Can, You Might Want To Add A Bigger Exhaust Fan, Or Add Some Inline Booster Fans To Help Move The Hot Exhaust Out Of The Ducting. You Have To Move Alot Of Air To Cool A 1000 watter.

QuentinQuark · #15 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 10:54 PM

Well, it didn't work.

So if I am able to comfortably place my hand on the cooltube and keep it there, you think I still need to move more air?

I have very short runs, like a couple of feet.

I'm pretty sure the radiant heat from the 1000w is just too much for that teeny tiny little space. I guess I will have to swap out for my 400w MH until I can afford a new HPS.

QuentinQuark · #16 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 11:18 PM

Hatch, to put it another way.

The temps in the upper half of the tent are 40C which is ridiculous. So let's say I try to get them under control, to a reasonable 25C. That means I would have to draw in air that was 15 degrees cooler than the air I am drawing in right now, which can't happen because that is in a bedroom and the person sleeping there would not be very happy if I turned the bedroom into an igloo

Hatch · #17 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 02:39 AM

Sorry Bro, You Could Use The MH Ballast & Get A Conversion HPS Bulb?? THey Will Work Good.

QuentinQuark · #18 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 02:30 PM

The conversion bulbs cost more than an entire HPS light, I checked ;)

Just how bad would it be to flower under MH?

Hatch · #19 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 02:50 PM

You Should Be Able To Get A Eye Hortilux Conversion For $117.00.

It Is Okay To Bud With The MH, But You Just Won't Get The Bud Development That You Get With A HPS, But It Will Work, Just Not As Good. But Hey, You Have To Do What You Can Now & Add To It Later.

QuentinQuark · #20 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 04:15 PM

CRAP. Too late. The last survivor died :(

Anyone in the Vancouver area feel like donating some genetics? Just need a decent rooted clone... If I have to start from seed again we're talking months before I get off the ground.