Hi all,

I have about 210watts of cfls over top some seedlings. The seedlings have just started to show their second set of leaves. The sucker leaves are looking brown and two seedlings out of the rest are clawing downwards a little bit. Do you think the light is too intense? The light is about 2 inches away from the seedlings and so far they seem like they can handle it except for the observations I just passed on (browning sucker leaves).

The seedlings were sprouted in rapid rooter cubes and then the cubes were put into soda bottles with pearlite/vermiculite. I've been feeding them PH'd water (around 6.0) with a drop of SuperThrive.

I decided to give one seedling nutes (it's about a week and a half old and looks like a mutant) 1/4 strength FoxFarm Grow Big, miniature Hempy style. Could be that the mutant is clawing because of the nutes but it still looks alright overall. The other seedling I described got no nutes and is clawing a bit. The other ones are fine and show no signs of clawing.

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

They are little bastards and are growing slow. Schwag bag seed, it's all I have right now. I'm thinking the genetics are the cause of the slow growth/small size. I figure if I'm patient they'll eventually catch up and do their thing.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Clawing is usually from overfeeding. Got any pics?

What's up Mike,

I'll see if I have any batteries in my camera. I'm really not feeding per say, except for the Superthrive. I only gave one seedling nutes (1/4 strength FF GB) and the rest (three others) just get the starter mix (Ph'd water and Superthrive).

I'll try and add some pics if I have batteries.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Okay,

Here are a few pics Mike:

The first one is the mutant, the one I gave nutes to about four days ago. The second is the seedling that is clawing also and the rest pretty much look alright besides the sucker leaves browning. The last pic is of three seedlings I just put under the lights today.

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Those three little sprouts were pale and closed this morning.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

One more I forgot to add:

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It's a different angle of pic number five from the previous post.

So what do you think is going on?

I just got some cake so I'm gonna make a DWC unit; Grow rocks (hydroton) net pots, air pump, etc. My cash comes in small increments so things are moving slowly. After I get my DWC set up I'm gonna spring for some HID lights and good genetics. I have a small veg shelf and below that is a nice sized grow/flower area. I still have a lot of things to work out in the flower area but since these little gals/guys are growing so slowly it looks like I'll have time to figure things out.

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

Found a place to buy hydro supplies that might be low key compared to the only hydro store in my area. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Note: Those rapid rooters work very nicely!

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Am in the same sitution.

Started some seeds under the kitchen cabinet lights. Finished the starter box and mine did the same thing. Ended up trashing them and then started a new batch in the new starter box. Everything was going good, then I finished the main box. It will be used for mainly flowering but sense I got the daul light I figured I would put the babies in there. After a week they looked the same as when - moved the fist ones into the starter box. Yesterday me and the wifey went a shopping spree buying test kits, to test the soil and recheck the water. Soil ph was around 7 , water ph around 6.5. Moister was around 1-2 on the test meter, we couldn't see anything that changed to the point that it would cause sick babies. So we went ahead and flushed 3 of them just to see what would happen. Big mistake they look worse now. Looking back at everything that has happened when we changed boxes both time. And the only thig we could figure out was the intensuty of the light was the only thing that really changed.

Question, does the light intensity need to be about the same going from one box to another?

My starter box has 2-2 bulb t-5's, not sure on total wattage. The main box has a 400 watt system.

Any help with this will be greatly appreicated.

Trying to run the 2 boxes to keep the flow going.

I'm thinking I'm throwing too much light on them (heat stress maybe?) or it's just some Mexican Sativa that takes some time to grow. I grew two plants outdoors this summer and they grew very slow. At that time though my soil was seriously compacted and it it took two weeks just for the beans to pop. It took them about a month to get five nodes under the sun but they were fairly compact but thin-leaved. A helicopter loitered over my veggie garden for about three minutes and I almost had a heart attack but kept cool on the outside. I was working right next to my girls while the cops were scouting my garden! They were camouflaged well, thank God! I went wrong when I tried to transplant and they both gave up the ghost on me...dammit!

Since then (indoor) I switched to Rapid Rooter cubes and they beans sprouted in under three days. I said goodbye to soil for the time being and decided to go soil(less) for the seedlings. Once I see some more growth I'm going to put them into a DWC unit, probably this weekend if things go alright.

Do you have a thermostat? I need to get one this weekend, it could be temps that are stunting mine, not sure though.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Hi there I think you might be ramping up on the light a bit fast as maybe a more gradual transition would be better. I use the Rapid Rooters and love them. Try 1/4 lights for 2 days then 1/2 for 4-6 days then full on after that.

If you flushed them in ph'd water they might come back in a couple of days. Not too much nutes to early. Good luck with them I hope they come back strong for you.

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I don't think any are on their way out, only two seem to be clawing. I can't explain the slow growth though. I decreased the lights by half to see what effect that will have in the next lights on cycle (18/6). Only one seedling was given nutes. I don't want to wind up killing them through flushing, know what I mean? I figure I'll just give the one that had 1/4 strength nutes PH'd water with Superthrive.

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

Those Rapid rooters do work nicely don't they?

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

The one flush would be fine. They will be fine and in no time they will give a nice growth spurt too.

Do you know what your temps are in there? Have you got enough air movement for them?

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I've got some decent air movement but I'm really clueless about the temps. I think it might be a bit on the hot side, maybe the high eighties if I had to guess. I'm going to get something to measure temps tomorrow. The fan I have is too big for the space so I need to get a small fan, maybe a 6" clip-on to put inside the small veg area. Right now their getting indirect air from beneath by a larger fan. Plants can only veg to about 12" tall in my veg area. It's a small space but that should be a decent height to start flowering at.

I'll tell you how things go tomorrow and Sunday and we'll see if there is any change. I'll do a flush on the one I gave nutes to. I don't think the others need a flush since they've only been getting water with Superthrive (water at 6.0). I guess nutes for all of them in about seven days maybe?

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

You are doing gr8t. The smaller fan will help get the circulation moving but it is a bit hot if high 80's. Do you have an exhaust fan taking air out and do you have fresh air coming in?

No need to flush the other just the nuted one. I like my seedlings to get a couple of sets of leaves before I give them much food. Less is best at first around 2-3 weeks old.

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Yeah that makes sense. New growers tend to over do it when we don't see the growth we want to see. The veg area is actually covered with a thick blanket until I can slap up a piece of plywood on hinges. Once I add the wood I'll cut some passive intake holes and vent from the top with a small fan. In order to get fresh air coming in I have to leave the bottom open (where the fan is...pointed upward towards a long gap on the side of where the seedlings are sitting) so the fan can suck in cooler fresh air. I can feel circulation but it is not optimum by any means.

I should have things tightened up shortly. I'm cash poor and smoke poor so I'm on a downer right now brother. No smoke and no cash makes Johnny a dull boy!

-the Corsican.

P.S.,

Going to DWC in a day or so. What size net pots would you recommend? I was thinking five inch but would three inch do the trick?

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

It is the temps they are complaining about. They are trying to stretch their leaves out so they can express more heat. The temps should be 75 to 78 is perfect. MAX 80. n What kind of cool air exchange do you have in there? You should have 3 times the size of your exhaust with cool air coming into the grow. So say you have a 4 inch hole for your exhaust fan. 3 X 4 is 12. That is the size of a hole you need low in the grow so the cool air coming into the space pushes the hot air up and can exchange it at the same rate, as air will not allow a vacuum. Once you fix that your plants will be fine. But you must get a thermometer. a high and low one is the best so you have an idea what it is lights off and lights on. Maybe 12 to 16 bucks from home depot. Hope that helps you.

Talk to you tomorrow.

Peace

__________________
Life,
j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


My Little Grow LST'ing w/Hardware

My Outdoor Odyssey 2008 BONSAI MUMS

My Little Grow Indoor To Outdoor 2009

usually having too much light is not the problem... the plants will take as much light as you can give them as long as the heat is under control. Also, try giving them some plain water with a couple drops of superthrive or a similar product. I've had great luck with some sickly plants coming back strong after using that product.

Earlier in the post guys...Been watering them with Ph'd water (6.0) with a drop of Superthrive. I cut the lights in half earlier today to take down the heat and explained my ventilation (or lack thereof) situation. Buying a thermometer tomorrow and moving the plants into a bubbler.

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Corsican, I do have a temp gauge and in both my boxes the temp is around 80 +\- a few degrees. The only thing that changed was the intensity of the lights from what I can tell. Looking at the babies when I got home this morning, there is new leafs growing out. I am hoping that it was just the change in lighting and they took a week to get use to it.

I will be working on getting the air temp down around 75 in the coming week have to make a road trip to the hydro store for the parts.

What am worried is when I move them from one box to the other if this is going to be an issues? Because looking at everything, it is like the growth that is already started and thriving is now dieing. What will happen to one that has veggged for 4-8 weeks in one box and then I move her over to the main box. Will I have to veg all over or will she keep growing to be what we are know she can be?

Corsican, sorry to butt in on your thread and throw in my issues as well. Just didn't want to duplicate threads.

No, that's cool. We're here to help each other. I don't think moving them to another box/area is going to cause any major problems as long as the environmental conditions are similar. You know the deal...Light, temps, airflow, water & growing media are the four most important factors in growing. If all these components are dialed in then the plant should grow well and take up the nutrients it needs.

I would suggest sprouting more seedlings and doing some tests to see what works best. I'm going DWC (building a bubbler today) to see if that will help my plants. Right now I'm trying to find an air pump for around $20.00 bucks that will do a decent job.

-The Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"

Okay, this is the third time I have tried to post to this thread! Not the sites fault, just me closing pages on myself! LOL!

Let us try this again!

Until you get the temps to where you can control them you will have heat problems. Read The knowledge project~Air exchange

This should clarify it for you. You must have 3 times the diameter of your opening for your exhaust in passive cool air exchange coming in low in the grow. So say you have a 4 in. exhaust fan going out, you need to have 3 X 4 inches of passive cool air intake low in the grow cab so that your fan can work correctly. The air can only come IN at the same speed it is being sucked out of the space. Putting a fan in the cool air INTAKE can actually slow down the air exchange. It works like this:

Air will not allow a vacuum. It will be sucked in at the same speed it is being blown out by your exhaust fan. So if your passive cool air intake is not addequete you will create a vacuum and this will not cool your space adequetly. You will notice a sucking when you open the door, and your fan will not work at it's best. By increasing your passive cool air intake, this will stop and your system will then cool down better.

Hope this helps you fellows. If not just let me know. Please let me know if you understand this as well Old Hopeful....

Peace

__________________
Life,
j-angel

aka GP purrie kittie attack cat!


My Little Grow LST'ing w/Hardware

My Outdoor Odyssey 2008 BONSAI MUMS

My Little Grow Indoor To Outdoor 2009

What's up Jangel,

Yup, makes sense to me.

I bought an eco temp/relative humidity (digital) meter from Wally world (accurate to within two degrees [temp] or two percentage points [humidity]). I cut my lights back by half last night and the temp reading is at 82.5 degrees right now with a RH of about 40%. If the temps are at 82 now they must have been considerably higher will all the lights turned on in the past two weeks or so. What's your opinion about that?

I'm in the middle of making some big changes and I'll probably be finish by the weekend Jangel.

By the way, do you have to do anything other than rinse off hydroton before using it? I've heard of people soaking it overnight but was curious if that was truly necessary?

Thanks for the advice,

-the Corsican.

__________________
My grow journal: http://www.greenpassion.org/f24/cors...st-grow-15533/

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

"If at first you don't succeed, it wont hurt to smoke a little weed!"